He was always going wherever the hell he wanted to at the end of this contract, right? Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, I talked to Bruce Beardrow this week, originally for my John Garrett story, but we ended up talking about Hughes.

And for the record, and it's a story I think I'll have on Friday, is, you know, Bruce says he hopes the fans don't boo.

Because in the end, he saw what...

he saw Quinn at his best, right? Like he saw Hughes and how much, you know, winning and leading this team and being a top player for this team mattered to him.

That, you know, Bruce really thinks that, I mean, he thinks that a lot of the dynamic would have been different.

And he essentially, you know, points that the boss that fired him, Jim Rutherford, You know, basically suggesting that he doesn't think – he thinks in many ways it's on Rutherford, but how that all ended, that if they'd been a bit more – if he hadn't said anything and hadn't gone around saying, well, yeah, this is what's happening, here's what's happened, it might have gone differently.

you think it's unfair, the reaction he may or may not get because it's the failure of the era, not him?

He was always going wherever the hell he wanted to at the end of this contract, right? Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, I talked to Bruce Beardrow this week originally for my John Garrett story, but we ended up talking about Hughes.

And for the record, and it's a story I think I'll have on Friday, is, you know, Bruce says he hopes the fans don't boo.

Because in the end, he saw what...

he saw Quinn at his best, right? Like he saw Hughes and how much, you know, winning and leading this team and being a top player for this team mattered to him.

That, you know, Bruce really thinks that, I mean, he thinks that a lot of the dynamic would have been different and he, you know, essentially, you know, points that the boss that fired him, Jim Rutherford, You know, basically suggesting that he doesn't think – he thinks in many ways it's on Rutherford, but how that all ended, that if they'd been a bit more – if he hadn't said anything and hadn't gone around saying, well, yeah, this is what's happening, here's what's happened, it might have gone differently.

I don't know.

you think it's unfair, the reaction he may or may not get because it's the failure of the era, not him?

Mm-hmm.

And they just never...

I, I'd be like, "Well, they're not gonna fix the problem, so fix the problem." Whereas women's rugby was, there was always a mentality I found of like, "Okay, we've got 15, 15 players.

Let's go have.

Let's get it done," right? And just get on with it and not worrying what you don't have and focus on what you do have and just teaching the game.

And so there's been a long-standing base of sort of volunteers who just recognize the challenge is to make the game happen.

And then on top of that, the, there is this now, I think it's almost 20 years, women's rugby has been a varsity sport in Canada.

Yeah

Hmm.

And one of the things he talked about was just how, was the approaches taken by those teams in '67, and there were s- a few different ways to go.

One of them was to sort of pick up guys in their 30s that, you know, had been able to play.

You'd kind of make a workmanlike team, which w- you know, which was, um, then there was, w- I think that was the S- St. Louis approach.

Then there was what, um, it was the Rochester Americans? I'm trying to remember now.

Anyway, 'cause in those days the AHL had these great quality teams, and, um, maybe it was St. Louis.

What St. Louis did was basically they bought the best AHL team going and just sort of added a few expansion draft players, and just, it was a really good team of guys that were good enough but hadn't g- Quite broken into the NHL, and that's why they were the best team in '67, '68, '69 i- in the, in the, the expansion, the West Division.

... they're no good, and they've been trying it forever."

I guess a centerpiece for not only them as an organization, but it's become a centerpiece of the community itself in Seattle.

Yeah.

And in most organizations, I mean, obviously there are places in the U.S. where, you know, look at Tom Gilardi's Dallas Stars, right? Dallas is not a region that you think of for hockey.

And going back almost to the beginning of the Stars moving to Texas 30 years ago, obviously they used to be in Minnesota.

The Stars recognized to create a sort of hockey culture here.

We're going to start building rinks here.

And so they have a whole network of suburban rinks and they've been carried on doing that.

You're going to have to spend the money at the end of

They were so good, and it's a shame they didn't win a Stanley.

Yeah, and, I mean, that was always that sort of ridiculous irony of the terrible nickname they took because they took such a beating.

Like, those guys were so tough.

And this idea that they were soft was always ridiculous.

They beat you because they were just better than you.

And, yeah, it was a marvelous time.

It was a marvelous time.

How did that go in?

How do you see both of these guys, how they fit in, or if they're on the outside looking in?

Well, yeah, I mean, Manny asked directly about both those guys, 'cause they're in the mix, and they're here.

And, you know, Manny joking obviously about, you know, maybe [laughs] if they get a hat trick, maybe that changes, but probably not.

It's about habits.

And Brayden Coots, you know, listen, he's done some really nice stuff with the puck.

Um, I still think he's bound to be number one in Abbotsford, playing hopefully with a guy like Archie Baines, and Archie Baines suddenly finding himself kind of being that wisened veteran at the ripe old age of 25.

Um, but you know, a guy that can show him the ropes.

... that Bains makes the team?

Yeah.

And Manny, you know, I was just talking to Brayden Coots.

He's like, you get...

You-- Or, and Guillaume BriseBois.

Like, Guillaume BriseBois has seen Manny in all forms that he has [chuckles] been here, right? Um, but yeah, like, there, there is a, a, a preparedness to Manny that surprises no one.

But you know, Brayden was saying, like, "We are going out on the ice, and we can see like the drill, you know.

The drills have been set, like, laid out on sheets that we can look at before we go on the ice." You know, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And Manny, you know, I was just talking to Brayden Coutts.

He's like, you get, you...

Or, and Guillaume Brisebois.

Like, Guillaume Brisebois has seen Manny in all forms that he has [laughs] been here, right? Um, but yeah, like, there, there is a, a, a, a preparedness to Manny that surprises no one.

But you know, Brayden was saying, like, "We are going out on the ice, and we can see, like, the drill, you know, the drills have been set, like, laid out on sheets that we can look at before we go on the ice." You know, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.

And they're working on the system.

Yeah.

So what's the core ask from yesterday's press conference?

The core ask from us.

The, the province, uh, back in 2021, uh, decided to launch a pilot project to decide whether they want, how they wanted to regulate these things.

They invited some municipalities to set up local bylaws, and they would test them out for a few years, see what worked, and then they would bring in legislation province-wide, was the idea.

And then after three years, they decided to extend that pilot for another four years.

Um, and, uh, we want them to end that pilot.

We want them to say, "No, w- it's been six years already right now.

We've talked about this in the past.

Patrick?

No, I mean, it's, it's, at the time, we saw what the return was, and that's a never, you know, those trades are never easy.

That's not a mind-blowing statement by any shape of the, stretch of the imagination.

But the, finding any kind of value when you trade your best player is the challenge.

And Booyah, listen, we, w- I'm fascinated to see how he does.

You know, one of the big discussions, things we talked about yesterday was, I mean, we talked to Max, Max Sassen talked to the group, but then I talked to him afterwards and I s- you know, I asked him.

He made a reference to, like, what are the, you know, what is he telling the veterans about what Manny's like? And I said, "Well, what are you telling them?" He said, "Well, he's, he's so prepared.

He, like, he, he shouldn't be playing more than 40 games.

What do you think of all this, Patrick? What do you think of this rebuild so far and where this team is headed?

Yeah.

Like you said, the big moment was trading Quinn Hughes, but it's been a big year of change.

Obviously, Patrick Allvin and Jim Rutherford out the door.

Jim's still on as a senior advisor, but really he's not involved.

He's not involved in day to day.

The Sedins and Ryan Johnson essentially taking over.

Is this what we should really just expect going forward? That this is the real Pettersson from now on?

... of August?

Yeah.

I mean, I think, yeah, and it's something I'm gonna touch on.

You know, it was a very fruitful conversation.

In fact, like I said, you know, we're doing a, I'm doing a Demko thing today.

I'm probably gonna write about Lecher Mackey tomorrow, and the Lecher Mackey piece kinda ties to all this c- 'cause he was very clear, you know.

The, the opportunities are there for the young guys, right? And, and, you know, Lecher Mackey is a guy who he thinks, you know, he's scored at every other level, right? Now is the time to do it in the NHL, and he wants to see him get the biggest opportunity he can.

... that and make sure that his coaches toe that line.

... and haven't had any.

Yeah.

Well, and then, and yeah, and that they're essentially all gonna be running at capacity, you know.

And, and if they're ...

I, I was talking to Levi Hinks, who's the president of the Vancouver Minor, and he said, "Listen, we're not in a position like, say," he talked about in Squamish, where basically if a kid doesn't sign up when they're five, they're never gonna play hockey, 'cause there's just that little attrition.

But he is concerned.

He does have, you know, the- these, these rosters are huge.

Mm-hmm.

[laughs]

It's a little bit of sports washing, shall we say.

That's been my instinct.

'Cause, you know, you go back to December and think about the announce- the, the announcement that they'd signed a deal.

I mean, the Whitecaps were very ...

And I know you're talk- you've got Axel on later, but, you know, I mean, even then he was like, "Well, yeah, we can try to, we have, what we have is a year to try to make something happen." And I was like, "Okay." So he's like, "So there's not-" Nope.

'Cause, you know, at that point, when it was coming up, you know, you started hearing all kinds of little brit- rumors.

I- is that as-

[laughs]

It's a little bit of sports washing, shall we say.

That's been my instinct.

'Cause, you know, you go back to December and think about the announce- the, the announcement that they'd signed a deal.

I mean, the Whitecaps were very...

And I know you're talk- we've got Axel on later, but, you know, I mean, even then he was like, "Well, yeah, we can try to, we have, what we have is a year to try to make something happen." And I was like, "Okay." So he's like, "So there's not-" Nope.

'Cause, you know, at that point, when it was coming up, you know, you started hearing all kinds of little bri- rumors.

I- is that as-

Well, what are you hearing about the seriousness of this potential sale? I feel like it kind of came out of left field to use a sportsism.

I would absolutely say so.

I mean, obviously I talked to the Mardoma and the jobs minister who's been tasked with essentially the white caps and BC place file.

Yeah.

I talked to him on Thursday and basically generally let's talk about how, you know, things were at the world cup and the buzz that came out of that.

And obviously the related ongoing story with the white caps and about probably 12 minutes into our 15 minute conversation, Thank you.

we're talking about options and he brings up, you know, we'd even consider them purchasing the stadium.

Is this going to at least quell the dismissal of this team to Las Vegas? Will it calm things down? Well, first of all, the

Yeah.

The, the, the thing about it is that, the thing to recognize in all this, if the Whitecaps were to, say hypothetically, to buy the stadium, give them control on their own of the stadium, that fundamentally would change the revenue potential for this team, uh, which would absolutely skyro- skyrocket their value.

They would become one of the most valuable teams in this league just because of that.

Uh, b- you know, you look at LAFC, for instance, who have a, a, a massive sponsorship deal with BMO, at least the American version of BMO, but, you know, they're a huge brand in a massive city.

Um, Inter Miami, y- y- you know, obviously with Lionel Messi and, and the sort of the Argentinian influence they have there, are a huge brand in the league.

They control their stadium.

David Beckham obviously is the owner.

Any, any timeline? Has the minister given any timeline in regards to hoping for a deal with the Whitecaps in any way, whether it's leasing or owning?

How does the math work? Where's the, the, the, the money leaking, I guess?

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's sort of twofold.

One's obviously there's, you know, the literal money you make off a game.

And as it stands right now, the, the government did agree, as Robbie Cowan agreed, and he all announced several months ago now, did agree essentially to hand over all profits to the Whitecaps and to the Lions.

They said the Lions get the same deal.

So anything that's made off a matchday that goes over and above, you know, meeting costs, whether that's staffing, uh, you know, the, the, the cost of servicing the debt on the stadium, things like that, um, that would then go over to the team because saying, "Hey, listen, we think you guys did the work here.

We're happy to give it." So a swing, that was something like a swing of $3 million.

Mm-hmm.

For those who missed it, what's the argument?

Well, [sighs] listen, there are, there are business issues.

And sure, you can talk all you want about radio and the change in technology and all that.

The fundamental truth is beyond that, as our pal Justin McElroy pointed out, that when he and I started in this business, I mean, he and, he and I basically tracked together 14 years ago.

We- if you look at Vancouver, we had, you know, the separate Sun and Province newsrooms.

We had 1040.

We had News 1130.

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

And they waived two of those games.

So, you know, this has been done already once, um, and, and it, it was, it...

I won't get into the, the sort of nuts and bolts of it, but the circumstances were slightly different.

And FIFA has been making these moves.

You know, there's a lot, if you wanna talk about the actual on play, you can argue, I mean, I thought it was a red card.

Um, but you know, certainly people thought it wasn't, and they also pointed out Lionel Messi has not been suspended for anything he's been doing, and he's been kicking people in the shins and the heels and all this.

Mm-hmm.

Effectively, our poll question is asking, "What's the next home run," if there is one this summer? Uh, do they trade DeBrusk or Elias Pettersson, or are they done, or is there another trade? Is there a surprise Philipp Grubauer trade?

[laughs] I don't think there's a surprise Philipp Grubauer trade, but I, I do think there's still a good chance of a PD trade.

Now, the, the challenge there is, is, you know, w- what, even with retention, what is an acceptable return, even given the inherent risk to the other team, right? Is a second-round pick acceptable retention? I don't think so.

I think you're still asking for more than that.

I don't think this is simply a salary dump, because at the end of the day, the player at least plays defense.

Now, doesn't score, needs a new environment.

But the bet is, is the other team is not just taking a problem off your hands, but they are betting, say you're Kenny Holland, you are betting that this is a guy that can fill in a huge hole on my roster and can bounce back.

... he's a $10 million player in today's market.

they get draft capital to also bolster their blue line at the back end.

It's a little bit of the Colorado thing, right? Like, they had McKinnon, they had these, you know, they had Landeskog, they had Matt Duchene, and they said, "Well, forget Matt Duchene.

We're moving somewhere." And, like, they just pivoted younger.

And as crazy as that sounds for the Sharks, I, you know, I, I still think they need to get going 'cause, like, this is Macklin Celebrini's final year on his ELC.

It is wild to think that there is a scenario here where the Sharks, who sort of try to stretch it out for one more year, and the Blackhawks, who are the Blackhawks, will get nothing out of the two ALCs of these two spectacular centers because, I mean, I guess that's a rebuild.

This is one, this is one version of it, as you said, Jeff, right? Like, you can go and go and go, and you don't know what the straightforward path is.

I don't think that means at the same time you can't get things turned around in a couple years.

... about the path that they wanna take.

He beats out some of the guys in the pre-training anyways.

Yeah, absolutely.

I asked Ryan Johnson yesterday.

Yeah, Thursday.

I said, listen...

This is the first time, other than the stretch in the early 90s when Pat Quinn was president, GM, and coach all at the same time, this is the first time in team history that those three positions have been held by former Canucks, three former, four former Canucks right now.

So guys that have been here, they kind of have a sense of, truly a sense of the club, if you will.

So how do you think that dynamic might actually work if it happens?

Like, he would've seen what made Elias the-

Yeah, but, yeah, but, uh, but I know like, listen, I know there were frustrations that f- that training camp that year that I heard about later on that, you know, he had gone and won the Calder and kind of thought, "Well, I..." And it goes back to the ongoing question of preparation, right? Like, it was, it was, he came, "Well, I won the Calder, so I'm here, and that's it." And that people were actually a little bit stunned at, at, you know, the lack of sort of off-season prep work that year.

So that, that will be something he would've been aware of.

Um, and now here we are, as he pointed out, [laughs] six years down the road.

It's kinda crazy to think that that was six years ago, but here we are.

And, and so yeah, like, like, figuring that out, whether he's here or not, is a huge question for management, and it's a huge question for Mel Holtra, because this is a player that for a variety of reasons has lost the thread of his career.

Um, and like I wrote about in March at the deadline, this is a guy that was just seemed lost.

Uh, what did you make of his answers on Caleb?