Yeah.

Whereas Glen Hansard's whole thing was that he was rooted into community, and again, seemed as comfortable in small rooms as big rooms, seemed as comfortable talking to, you know, minor Irish musicians as he did f- talking to rock stars.

And I think that wasn't a pose.

I think that was, um, part of who he was, and it, it lended authenticity to what he did, and it lent a sense of, uh, kind of authority then when you wanted to ask about Irish [laughs] music and you were like some American producer or star.

Like, when they're talking about like the real Dublin music, they go to Glen.

The live music thing was really, really important.

What's that?

Well, that's his, his band with Marketa, which I think was just a departure.

Yeah

... like, I love reporting, and I love going out.

And I think where a lot of the fictional energy comes in this book is, like, years of experience talking to people and talking to strangers, which is, I think, really good for me.

Like, more, um, better for me in a way than all the leeway they give me when I'm writing my funny stuff.

Like, there's something about having to go out into the city or go out into a town in England and talk to strangers on the street that it, it kind of teaches you something about yourself, but also just how interesting individuals are and how different-

Telling

... as people had led me to believe or as I remembered from reading it in college.

And I came to the conclusion that it's, um, I think people make you scared of it.

Isn't that right?

[laughs] Well, I did.

So that, and that is kind of adaptation, 'cause it, it ...

So it's about a band anyway, and I used to be in bands.

So myself and my brother-in-law, Aaron Went into his little studio and recorded some stuff.

And in a way, it's like an adaptation of the book because there's a little chunk of music in the book at one point, and we took that, uh, which I wrote on the piano, and we kind of built the song around it.

[laughs] Um, so yeah, that is kind of...

[guitar music]

So when you're getting into those, the heads of all these characters, like, is there, uh, is there one that kind of stands out for you? Is there one that you connect with most as you go through it, or do you love kind of creation, creating as you go, or?

I, I love them all.

Like, there's, there's a few I really, really like.

Like, I like Becca, who's a, she's a really smart but, um, slightly dysfunctional, uh, woman in her 30s wandering the city, and she's friends with the drummer in the band.

So this is kind of how the, how the novel works is, um, uh, it's a, it starts with the members of a band called The Heathens, who, they're about my age.

They're, I'm 51.

Yeah.

And so they're in their late 40s maybe, and 20 years earlier, there was a tragedy.

It was sort of a communal experience, whereas now it seems everyone's a solo artist.

Y- yeah.

And I, and I, I'm a huge defender of the idea of bands.

I think everyone should form a band.

And I don't, it, I think you should form a band, Matt.

Like, there's something mad about a bunch of people, like, of different skill levels, different ambition levels, having to do something where there's very little money involved and having to figure out a way of getting that done.

Like, how to produce a record, how to print up a record and sell it and get it into shops when there's no real financial motive.

How did that suit you as a former band member?

You

know, you can actually do good work within office hours.

And secondly, I learned about just perspective, that it's really important to have other stuff in your life that... it's really important to have time with your friends and family and to do things you like to be a full person.

And I think sometimes, I think men in particular, but I wouldn't generalise because women get burnt out a lot too.

In fact, probably more now that I think about it and saying it out loud.

But I think people forget sometimes that they're not just their job and they're not just the thing they do.

And actually, the other thing, when I wrote about it six months later, the thing that occurred to me is that there's this constant... focus on excelling at everything like if you flick through social media everyone is trying to be the best at everything and all we can ever be by definition most of the time is average like you know we're all particularly good at certain things yeah but then the rest of the time average is good enough and you shouldn't be people shouldn't be beating themselves up about it and i think i had been beating myself up a bit about not not excelling at all times um And when I did that piece, I did an essay for the Irish Times on the subject six months after I'd experienced the burnout.

You've also talked about you and Anna don't have children and you've talked about, I know it's pressure, the right word is judgment, the right word around that.

Yeah.

Um, and I can do that.

I like doing that sometimes, when it's a kinda lighter subject.

But if you're interviewing people about really serious shit that's happened to them, you kinda want to do it in kind of as straightforward a way as possible.

Um, so I definitely think it probably comes from that, but I never really thought about it in terms of the essays before.

Um, and I like...

So I think the reporting stuff is really good for me as a journalist.

Mm-hmm.

The initial, from that cohort in the country, my stance anyway, was that the initial hostility then had to be tempered by, oh, oh, hundreds of thousands of people like them and they sell out, you know, they sell out the free arena in 10 minutes.

It's like when Garth Brooks sold at Croke Park like five nights in a row and everyone was going, nobody likes Garth Brooks.

Like the Dublin media, of which I'm guilty of being part.

We're just so shocked by it.

Like I find something like Marty Morrissey was on my list because that man is a saint.

And when I once spent a day with him around Sample Stadium to write a piece for the Irish Times, it was the first time I realised he is like worshipped as a god in some parts of this country.

Like I'd say his face is engraved in a passage tomb somewhere.

But the degree of... ignorance about things that people outside Dublin or outside Cork or outside Galway City for that matter are kind of into and are passionate about is actually at times quite astounding.