So why does that happen? What's the gap between a pilot that works and a transformation that sticks?

Well, I think it's leadership and leaderships.

They need to change before they try and scale AI across their business.

Leaders need to stop thinking like adopters and start thinking like real operators.

You know, so instead of saying, where can we use AI? The better question is, do we have even the structure to control it? One thing I noticed about working in Kenya, I'm not sure if it's the same in Nigeria.

So I've never been to Nigeria.

But there's an overconfidence that they can use AI and do it in a company and make it work.

So Patrick, what do leaders need to change before they try to scale AI across their business? What's the leadership shift? required that has nothing to do with the technology?

[laughs]

You know? [laughs] And, um, you know, I've met Josh many, many times over the years.

Uh, I've been lucky enough to be backstage.

He kinda knows who I am from just being an insane person.

And, uh, uh, being around and meeting him since 2002 was the first time we met.

Um, and we've probably, I've probably met him 15, 20 times since then.

Um, and I was gonna help him with a trial, all this, all this stuff.

[laughs]

Like How you came up with the idea, you and David, how you came up with the idea of putting this book together, where those conversations started and the premise of that.

My friend is David Lively at Studio98.ai. And he had helped me in my previous company.

I brought him in as like a fractional COO.

He had been in business consulting.

He'd used my software I'd created.

And he wanted to transition his whole company to AI.

And I said, let me kind of walk this journey with you and also do my doctoral research and help you through what you're doing.

Can you share a little bit more about that?

thing.

The origin story, we have...

Well, we have a short time, but if I go too long, just cut me off because, well, it can go a long way.

So just to set it straight from the beginning, I'm not American.

I'm a proud member of the 51st state, also known as Canada.

And I'm not sure if it's so proud about that anyway, but I left Canada in 2020.

But I should back up because... born and raised in Canada, although I spent some time living and growing up in Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe.

But I do go back and forth.