And I have yet to be in a classroom where students didn't arrive with some interesting way of thinking about or viewing or understanding the world.

I think too often, and I can only speak for the United States, our books, our curriculum often deals with one area and then you test and then you move on and don't really pull the pieces together.

And I think... works for establishing a base but I think it's really imperative to use interleaving where you were you're able to compare and contrast like you were saying Valentina and I would often do that through the use of essential questions and so I think we need to take it this step farther and beyond simply just the facts and really able to create this deep and critical thinking.

So when you think about the science of learning and some of those things that I just mentioned, and my concern for how maybe limited some of that, at least conversation and messaging might be, getting into the deep learning space, maybe talk a little bit about that if you would.

We have a long ways to go with the science of learning, but I think some lethal mutations are starting to emerge.

And one, a big one, I think, is that it's boxes that you tick.

And That is a mutation we don't want to get into.

I think it's important to not simply just do retrieval because that's what you're told to do and okay, I did it.

I saw that.

And they were talking about retrieval and Jade talked about her two favorite research studies.

Jade knows her stuff, right? So the first one she talked about was a very famous one between Roediger and Karpicki in 2006.

And it talked about that retrieval was really effective.

Because... you know, I've seen that study so many times, but what I realized that that was 2006 and the research in my classroom with Roediger started in 2007.

So he was the one, he and Mark McDaniel, another cognitive scientist at Washington University in St. Louis, They worked together and they had come up with this idea of we have studied in laboratories with college students under very strict conditions.

How can we do this in a classroom, still having strict conditions, still very rigorous research, but in a classroom? And so it was just fortuitous that I met Mark McDaniel.

So how did you kind of make that transition into this new community? Like talk me through what happened for you.