And I'm putting my own words in this, but are you on, is that kind of your, uh, where you, what you walked into? Uh, that there was perhaps not as great an understanding of, of the values of, of how you treat your vineyard orga- you know, bio- organically and, and working in a non-interventionist way at that time that you, when you first started in, in the US?

Uh, yeah, it's fair to say that.

Uh, when I, when I arrived indeed in New York, uh, we were kind of out of, uh, we were still in the middle of, uh, the very broad, big, uh, expression of, uh, grape varieties in very specific region.

Um, yet New York already started to have, since a, a, a few years, some pockets of places where you started to get natural wine.

You had some very famous restaurant or wine bar, most often with a European influence.

That was really exciting for that.

But there was the exception.

It's not going to be necessary always within, uh, a, a list of four descriptors.