How did you come into that work and how did it lead you to this place that you are now?

Yeah, that was life is life is very windy for a lot of us, right? We think we're going in one direction and we're not.

And, you know, life throws us some curveballs and some and some bends in the road.

So I actually started my act.

I went to university and studied criminology and I was thinking about going into environmental law and eco justice.

Like, how can I help the environment? And there were some twists and turns there.

I ended up in a summer job that was forestry firefighting.

I would love to hear your reflections on what role memory plays in recovery, what happens to memory, and how you work with people's memories in this expanded state that they enter under psychedelics.

What can you tell us about your thoughts along those lines?

Right.

Well – One of the things that is so clear to us and our team and also the reason for the university program is that working with these medicines is lineage work.

It's not something where you take a weekend seminar and then start.

It's not something that you even take a one-year program and start.

These are our elders and our mentors, our wise knowledge keeper elders.

And of course, so many of the people you get to meet with all the time in your work in the Amazon, they have elders that have passed down the wisdom that they have learned from.

What have you learned? What are the scientific conclusions rather than just people saying, take this because it's good for you?

What would you say to that?

Oh, I agree 100%.

And I want to take it back even to something earlier is that it takes, there's a certain, not in all, but in a lot of us that drive to get into these professions.

The fire service, I saw it.

In medicine, I see it.

In nursing, I see it.

Is that there is this element quite often in people that strive to accomplish of not feeling fundamentally good enough.

But I would like you to say briefly, make some comments on MDMA and ketamine since you work with those and talk about why it is important to have these new chemicals in our medicine chest.