Pamela, thank you so much for

joining me on the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me and for highlighting my book and my work.

So I want to give a little background as to who I am.

Please.

I'm a legal scholar.

I am currently at University of Minnesota Law School, and I research and teach in the areas of bankruptcy, commercial law, consumer finance law, contracts with a dash of corporate law.

So the first thing I think I want to investigate before we get to actually filing bankruptcy, what happens after that? What are the sorts of situations where churches, Black or otherwise, end up in situations where filing for bankruptcy is even sort of on the table?

Pamela, thank you so much for joining me on the

podcast.

Thank you so much for having me and for highlighting my book and my work.

So I want to give a little background as to who I am.

Please.

I'm a legal scholar.

I am currently at University of Minnesota Law School, and I research and teach in the areas of bankruptcy, commercial law, consumer finance law, contracts with a dash of corporate law.

So the first thing I think I want to investigate before we get to actually filing bankruptcy, what happens after that? What are the sorts of situations where churches, Black or otherwise, end up in situations where filing for bankruptcy is even sort of on the table?

Pamela, thank you so much for joining me on the

podcast.

Thank you so much for having me and for highlighting my book and my work.

So I want to give a little background as to who I am.

Please.

I'm a legal scholar.

I am currently at University of Minnesota Law School, and I research and teach in the areas of bankruptcy, commercial law, consumer finance law, contracts with a dash of corporate law.

So the first thing I think I want to investigate before we get to actually filing bankruptcy, what happens after that? What are the sorts of situations where churches, Black or otherwise, end up in situations where filing for bankruptcy is even sort of on the table?

Pamela, thank you so much for joining

me on the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me and for highlighting my book and my work.

So I want to give a little background as to who I am.

Please.

I'm a legal scholar.

I am currently at University of Minnesota Law School, and I research and teach in the areas of bankruptcy, commercial law, consumer finance law, contracts with a dash of corporate law.

So the first thing I think I want to investigate, before we get to actually filing bankruptcy, what happens after that? What are the sorts of situations where churches, Black or otherwise, end up in situations where filing for bankruptcy is even sort of on the table?

Pamela, thank you so much for joining me on the

podcast.

Thank you so much for having me and for highlighting my book and my work.

So I want to give a little background as to who I am.

Please.

I'm a legal scholar.

I am currently at University of Minnesota Law School, and I research and teach in the areas of bankruptcy, commercial law, consumer finance law, contracts with a dash of corporate law.

So the first thing I think I want to investigate before we get to actually filing bankruptcy, what happens after that? What are the sorts of situations where churches, Black or otherwise, end up in situations where filing for bankruptcy is even sort of on the table?

there's a lot of different things within it um and yet that's sort of the way that the numbers kind of break down it's not based on location or denomination or all sorts of other things and this book helps us understand what exactly is going on here um and so clearly we have a lot of things to discuss pamela thank you so much for

joining me on the podcast oh thank you so much for having me and for highlighting my book and my work So I want to give a little background as to who I am.

Please.

I'm a legal scholar.

I am currently at University of Minnesota Law School, and I research and teach in the areas of bankruptcy, commercial law, consumer finance law, contracts with a dash of corporate law.

And most of my work is empirical.

So I use data about the bankruptcy system as an avenue to explore what is happening in the economy and society.

So the first thing I think I want to investigate, before we get to actually filing bankruptcy, what happens after that? What are the sorts of situations where churches, Black or otherwise, end up in situations where filing for bankruptcy is even sort of on the table?

Will you give us a brief overview? And I'm going to call it Death's Grip in order to shorten the title of the book.

Yeah, maybe I'll jump in on this one.

And thank you, Alan, for kicking this off and also for your really good and really excellent summary of the book.

And I'll just highlight a few things that you said and maybe give people a little overview of what they'll find in the book.

And so what you highlighted is what we meant to do with the book.

We meant for it to provide a thick description of what it means to live in financial precarity in the United States.

And the book is the culmination of a decades-long project that uses data from people's bankruptcy filings to show the barriers to financial stability and that households across the United States face.

What could be done to correct this morass, this problem that you've identified? What would be productive in terms of policies for people to not be dependent on turning to credit products when they face financial hardship?