Mm-hmm.

You know, so there's woundedness on both sides.

And so they know that going in, and they know that there's triggers, that they're gonna be set off, but they also want to have their marriage be a light to others.

And so they said, "Pam and Bill, we know that you guys have this Monday Marriage Meetup, and we wanna try it." And so they were the first people to buy [laughs] uh, the Marriage Meetups when they came out.

And I love what happened, is they said that it helped them avoid some of the things that happened in their first marriage-

Yeah.

So Caleb, um, is born.

Bill had first said, "Let's finish your education." So Caleb is born.

Yeah.

Like, "Lord, if you tell me to do something, I wanna do it.

If you s- tell me to say something, I wanna say it.

If you tell me to pray something, I wanna pray it." I w- I didn't want me to be the obstacle, and I knew very well that because of my brokenness, uh, that that could happen.

That could ha- I could become a controlling, control freak mom because I was, came from a house that was out of control.

So, like, God was always working on me as well as the kids.

But, um, l- let me just give you a couple examples.

That's awesome.