When you're talking about systems and protection, how do you view the use of AI in payments nationwide at the moment? And can it genuinely remove overheads? Can it help operationalize things for the company?

I think we view the use of AI in a couple of different domains.

In one sense, we've had AI for 30 years because we've had four platforms which look at the transactions and score them.

And we use that and we continue to use that.

And it's really important to continue to use that and actually make it more sophisticated.

Because the ability to spot anomalous transactions for a variety of reasons, for fraud, for money laundering, to try and determine whether a customer is doing something which has put them in a bad position is really important.

And there's a lot of future in that kind of domain still.

isn't

And Otto, on a similar theme, from a UK lens, what pressures and expectations do you think are most shaping how building societies and banks are thinking about payments today and in the future?

Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? I mean, Tom, you're right about saying that nothing goes away.

I always look at it from a UK banking perspective and you need to be able to cater for, depending on how you count, seven, eight different mechanisms.

And that's just today.

So none of them vanish.

You need to have...

You need to have BACs, you know, three-day mechanism, because that's how people pull, you know, subscriptions or salary payments across the country.

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