Well, Prof, could you also tell us, in your opinion, what it will take for global investors to take the rating from the new African Rating Agency more seriously?

Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, when we talk of the African continent, there's always the concern of hot spots, conflict zones.

That has a huge and major impact on stability on economies.

And that's always what bedevils credit rating agencies.

So I think that people are going to be looking at how the new regulatory body is going to deal with those conflict areas in the DRC, East DRC, whether it's in Sudan, whether it's in Ethiopia, Latria, and so forth.

So that will have some geopolitical impact on how investors are going to judge the new credit ratings agency.

on hotspots, but also in terms of your debt to GDP ratios.

But how does the launch of the AFCRA also challenge the existing global financial architects? And what does that mean for Africa's relations with international financial institutions like the IMF, for instance, and the World

Do you think there's a basis for this feeling of marginli-- uh, marginalization? And I think it's becoming increasingly louder, the perception thereof.

Yeah, no, absolutely.

I mean, you see these tectonic shifts over time.

Um, you know, at the beginning of our, of our democracy in, in, in South Africa, uh, the so-called coloreds decided to play safe.

It's what I would call play safe, and voted with the New Nationalist Party.

Soon realized that that's not a political home for them and shifted over to the ANC.

And again, we saw a tectonic shift with them then moving to the African National Congress, um, and, uh, back to the DA, uh, the Democratic Alliance.

How would you respond to that, Oscar van Heerden?

Is that ever going to happen?

I don't think so.

I don't think so because it is going to fundamentally change and shift geopolitics internationally.

The countries that is clamoring on the door to be included at the table are generally from the global south.

And if Africa is going to be allowed to have permanent seats.

Then India is going to have an argument to make.

Brazil will have an argument to make.

Do you see any movement happening now? regards accountability or at least just the restoration of some human rights organizations to be active in Gaza, for instance?

So In that light, what are some of the highlights that you think about when you think about this latest BRICS summit, particularly with the Global South taking the sense in a lot of the topics that they spoke about?

Yeah, I mean, I think that one of the big takeaways from this 18th summit of BRICS is first and foremost, The fact that BRICS Plus is actually beginning to gel, is actually beginning to speak one language internationally, I think it was quite an achievement by Prime Minister Modi to actually get all the countries that was there to agree on the statement, the declaration, in which it speaks of obviously enhanced economic relations, trade and investment, but also talking about the fact that these conflicts, particularly in the Middle East, must come to an end, that people must have some introspection around hostilities and civilian infrastructure and so forth, and that they are saying that there must be a fundamental change to multilateral fora.

in the world, particularly the UN Security Council, that needs to begin to reflect the new realities of the 21st century in terms of emerging powers and so on.

So a very coherent statement.

I think that people might have wanted to ignore BRICS before, but the The diplomacy and the unity that Modi, Xi, Putin, Ramaphosa, Lula, and the BRIC-Plus members are showing is certainly a cause for optimism in terms of global affairs.

For you, what are the key subjects or the key points from the declaration that must be implemented first and foremost?

You know, Tadi, I want to address one issue where Western media is trying to give this impression that there's more talk and hot air and very little action coming from the BRICS formation.

This is simply not true.

We seem to be having meetings and things seem to have stabilized, but it's, this would suggest otherwise.

No, absolutely.

Just when we thought we were turning a corner, uh, it seems that, uh, the political campaign that was initiated by the Trump administration is still in full swing, with additional punitive actions, uh, now resulting in this visa restriction regime.

What do you make of it? What do you think is behind it?

Well, I think, I think the USA is, is very disappointed and frustrated, uh, with, uh, global geopolitics at the moment.

You know, we, we see, for example, that the proxy war, um, that they are fighting against, uh, Putin is not going well.

In fact, Ukraine is weeks, if not months away from complete defeat.

Um, we see that, uh, the, the illegal aggression against Iran, uh, has turned the whole global economy upside down.

Is there any strategic logic to the ANC delaying the announcement of a mayoral candidate or does this look more like internal battles? It looks like that to me.

Good morning, Lester, and to your listeners.

It is rather perplexing that the ANC has taken this long they are trying to send a message from what I can see, Lester, which is that they've engaged in a very vigorous process to select these candidates.

You know, that they've interviewed them, they've done vetting, in a way trying to, I think, say to the public that this is a different crop of candidates because we've engaged in this process.

long, vigorous process where they've set up committees in all the provinces and these people have been interviewed and so on and so forth.

So trying to give some integrity, it seems, to the process and to these candidates.

But I think, you know, when you haven't actually nailed it down and said these are candidates for these municipalities, you put yourself in a disadvantage as the election date approaches.

Does this show a problem in our overall politics that we're running out of, and I don't want to say characters, but we're running out of credible people, but can also put forward a credible, informative, and sometimes, if I'm trying to say on Zoran Mambadani here, an entertaining message forward.

Are any of our bodies, in fact, 100% independent?

Yeah.

Uh, look, I mean, uh, it's a very difficult one, Lester, because, you know, if you look at other countries, um, you, you...

They are supposed to operate independently.

They are supposed to have independence with regards to fear and favor, and so forth.

Uh, of course, there's always the constraint, which is that the budget is being provided by, um, government, by the treasury, and so forth.

Um, but I don't think that necessarily means that there's control being exercised over those institutions.

The troubles of Sisyphus trying to, to make inroads against corruption, but then all of a sudden the boulder keeps running downhill again.

Does the government have the capacity to deal with this situation?

Well, let's start by deportations.

You know, even though South Africa is the largest economy on the African continent, it has lots of money, it is simply not financially sustainable if you think that you are going to transport the illegal immigrant problem out of South Africa.

We would probably have to run X amount of buses and flights continuously for a very long time.

So that is simply not possible.

What we need to do is have a comprehensive approach to this issue, and that means to also at times go to the source of some of the challenges.

And I mentioned one, Suleiman, but this is certainly not exclusive.

Who's the motivation here? Who's the beneficiary here, politically at least?

The president says his interventions are being welcomed, but I saw one critic who's called them microwave solutions.

[laughs] Yes, no, well, I mean, I think, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a desperate measure to try and deal with the ongoing crisis.

Um, and indeed it is a crisis.

I think we should start there, Bongani.

Um, the fact of the matter is we have lots of undocumented, uh, immigrants in South Africa from our frontline states, but also much further afield, uh, in terms of Nigeria, uh, and DRC, and so on and so forth.

So, um, you know, the interventions are being welcomed, but I think the positive that I'm taking away from this is that for the first time in a long time, uh, regional governments in the SADC region are beginning to say, um, that it is not only...

You know, it would be naive for us to think that it's only a South African government problem, and that it's actually a regional-wide problem.

We've seen politicians jumping on the bandwagon of describing the country and even our government as being xenophobic, which of course you and I know is not true.

What, if anything, have you come across as to what the detail that may be contained in this agreement may be? Because we don't really know, right?

Well, firstly, you know, everyone is referring to it as a deal, but actually it's an MOU.

It's a framework that they've agreed on because the contentious issues around, as you said in your insert, around nuclear enriched uranium, as well as the future of the Strait of Hormuz, those are all topics.

And then, of course, the sanctioned you know, lifting against Iran and giving their frozen assets back.

Those are all the contentious issues, none of which has been addressed.

And so what this agreement says is that we will take 60 days, we will seize all attacks and so on, partially open the Strait of Hormuz, but within the 60 days, we need to then begin to address and negotiate around those very contentious issues.

And as negotiations go, it could very well, after 30 days or 60 days, there could be an announcement saying we can't see eye to eye.

It's not going to be an easy couple of days for the U.S. President, will it?