Wow.

No, there's no process.

There's no theology of suffering.

Man.

In that world, you know, and it's so damaging, especially in the mental health conversation.

So for me, me writing songs for mental health, I have people of mine, specific people of mine, but, you know, I think about my parents that may, it was even more taboo when they were growing up.

Yeah.

Were you on staff with a church at any point? And what was that journey like for you? What did you learn during those times?