How much does this sort of anti-Semitic framing rely on sort of tropes that you think are recurring around Muslims and Muslims in the West in particular? Yeah,

it's a familiar narrative.

And I always think it's necessary for us to move in stages through processing this.

And of course, in the fast-paced world of accusation and defence and response, there is no opportunity to process and to grieve.

So I think as a human being, as a father, the first step is always to pause and say, this is a horrible thing.

It's an atrocious thing when your loved ones are attacked on the street.

Period.

Can you explain to us how ishq is different to the modern version of love that we often hear discussed?

amazing absolutely absolutely which makes me wonder you know um obviously our all of our goal would be to to to live that way live so mindfully uh that that we're exuding this this sort of divine presence on our face right what a wonderful way to say that yeah um but our but recognizing that maybe we're not all there all the time Do you have particular practices that you could tell us about that are part of your tradition?

Yeah, so we do.

And, you know, for us, one of the main starting points of that is it's a practice of the remembrance of God.

And it's a series of litanies that begins with the chanting of a certain mantra, a certain mantric prayer.

And it begins with la ilaha illallah.

Nothing is worthy of worship except for the one God.

And so that's really the moment of Jesus kicking over the tables of the money changers at the temple or the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon them both, removing the idols from the temple that Abraham built.

Mm-hmm.

[chuckles]

"Whereas the perfume seller doesn't need to shout about how fragrant his wares are." And our Iranian friends, of which both I and Fatemeh come from, we have no monopoly on, on goodness, on beauty, on love, on courage, and this is not an exercise for us to have to prove something that's already a given, mainly our very humanity.

But if you're watching the news and you hear an unhinged madman, the naked king, openly boast about committing civilizational genocide and wiping an entire civilization off the face of the planet, it is time for moral clarity.

Our voice might shake, but it is time to speak with openness, with compassion, and with courage, remembering that courage ultimately comes from the heart.

And this is not the first time that people of this region have had to do so.

Remember that our beloved Hazrat-e Mawlana Rumi, he lived at a time where about 10% of the world's population in that part of the world was wiped out by the Mongol onslaught.

10%.

And you're right, one of the harmless aspects of what's going on in our lives now in the world is what war and violence does to language, particularly that we live in the age of social media and things are like, poof, out there in, with a push of one button.