How does you then shift towards this career where you're really creating footwear?

[lip smack] Yeah.

So when I, um, you know, when I finished, when I finished college, you know, I had a few different internships under my belt.

I had the opportunity to intern for brands like New Balance, ASICS, and Adidas, and got quite a bit of experience professionally in the, in the shoe space.

But then as I got closer to, to being done with school, you know, that's-- you have to start thinking about what are you actually gonna do and, and where are you gonna do it and, you know, your, in terms of your job or your post-college career, what was next.

And I always knew I wanted to work for myself and start my own business and, um, and I didn't really know how to get that started really at the time until my last internship that I did in college, where I worked for a gentleman out here in Southern California, where I live now, who had a footwear consulting agency, and it was the first time that I've ever seen an independent shoe designer.

I thought the only way you could design shoes was you had to be an employee of a Nike or Adidas or a big brand, but this was my first exposure to an agency model where you got to work with multiple brands.

[chuckles]