So yeah, what was your own initiation of moving from probably like good girl mama or rebel mama at times into the wild mother witch that your soul came here to be?

Yeah, thank you.

Thank you for that introduction.

Yeah, so...

So my eldest is now 10, 10 and a half.

So my motherhood journey started over 10 years ago.

And actually I was just reflecting on this before our call.

What's your sense of why there was a sense of shame in that?