And what was it like to win that major on the Champions Tour, to win the senior U.S. Open?

Well, I always felt, Mark, that my game was suited to those kinds of tournaments because I always drove the ball in play.

And I was a pretty consistent iron player.

I didn't hit the ball a long way.

So I didn't have a lot of gaps in my game.

I didn't have to find, you know, I didn't have the kind of thing where I get an adrenaline rush and hit the ball 15 yards too far or anything like that.

So those control kind of golf courses or tournaments really suited me.

What do you think the state of the game is right now? And I think you just gave us a little glimpse into what you think.

And, uh, what was it like to win that major on the Champions Tour, to win the, the Senior U.S. Open?

Well, I always felt, um, Mark, that my game was suited to those kinds of tournaments because I, I dr- always drove the ball in play, and I was a pretty consistent iron player.

I didn't hit the ball a long way, so I didn't have a lot of gaps in my game.

I didn't have to find ...

You know, I, I didn't have the kind of thing where I'd get an adrenaline rush and hit the ball 15 yards too far or anything like that.

So those control kind of golf courses or tournaments really suited me.

And even though I only finished, uh, fifth at the U.S. Open at Congressional that one year, I always felt like ...

Yeah