Given that Noy and I actually reside in the creative left, I was really, really eager to ask Noy about why the inability of the sector to hold our truths or to understand where we were coming from in terms of our processing of this upsurge in antisemitism was so difficult and so traumatizing.

There was this, this question around this notion about anti-Zionism and this post-colonial discourse being conflated and confused, and this discomfort around meanings and ideas around that that was really difficult for them.

And again, there was this big issue around philanthropy and Jewish philanthropists, and we are s- we've seen that play out a number of times across the sector.

And some of the Jewish philanthropists, for example, there are stories about either they're pulling their funding because they wanna keep the organization safe, or the org- or the organization themselves are saying, "I'm sorry, we just have to let the funding go." And these are heartbreaking stories about, you know, organizations that care deeply or philanthropists that care deeply.

I think what's really interesting, and I don't wanna speak for all Jewish creatives, but myself and my friends in the Jewish creative spa- space, a lot of us didn't go, "I'm Jewish and I'm an artist." It was more like, "I'm an artist and I'm, I'm Jewish.

It's just part of who I am and my, my creative milieu, and that's part of my identity, but it's, it just is, but I am an artist.

I'm a creative, I'm a writer, I'm a musician," whatever it is.

[laughs]