Yeah.

the whole world of it.

And so I pirated a copy of Reason 3 and just played around with that, made some terrible music that I cannot find, even though I've looked really hard for it.

Eventually noticed that my friend who was better at production than me, who was my rival at the time, I like to think, John Luke, he got Ableton.

And I was like, well, I need Ableton now.

And so then I got Ableton and pirated it.

And then started doing that for like a little while and made some dog shit music.

exactly