Do you think this is what the deal says? Do you think we're already seeing different interpretations, and if so, what could that mean?

Well, I've yet to, to see, uh, a, an agreement of this sort that is not given, uh, to different interpretations.

Uh, simply because spelling out every detail, um, almost guarantees, uh, rejection by one side or another.

So yeah, you gotta give some room for what Henry Kissinger used to call creative ambiguity, uh, which sometimes becomes an ob- uh, impediment for progress.

Uh, I believe that a, a government, again, I'm looking at it from a parochial Israeli perspective, uh, where we want, uh, basically two things, Israeli security, uh, and Gazans, uh, getting out of the awful misery, uh, of, uh, in the wake of October 7th and the war that ensued.

Um, in that context, I think a government that would want to, uh, proceed with the 20-point plan, make it a success, will look at it not as a sequence.

Are we going to de- uh, withdraw first, or are they going to de- disarm first? I think they're gonna look at it as a, if you will, a multidimensional zipper, where each side makes a move, uh, with a reciprocal move anticipated and guaranteed by the other side.

If it's preparing to withdraw at some point, why is it building infrastructure inside the territory?

He placed it in a broader context.

Yeah, without obviously knowing anything about the specific case, I would say that quite a few of my colleagues in Commanders for Israel's Security, all of them served 30, 35 years in the IDF on Mossad or Shin Bet.

We are all very concerned about the changes in the IDF conduct.

And certain

units begin to look like militias.

Now, if this is the trigger for the specific incident that you've been investigating, I don't know.

But the amount of uninvolved casualties is unacceptable.

No?

Look, I'm as critical, I'm as critical of the document and the fact that it does not spell out Israeli commitment, uh, t- for total withdrawal, uh, from any inch of, uh, Lebanese territory once security, uh, situation enables that.

Uh, more than that, I, I think that that should be, uh, not an American position but rather that the Israeli prime minister and minister of defense, uh, rather than calling for taking more territory of Lebanon, uh, to declare, uh, that we are not there to grab territory, which we are not.

Uh, which brings me to, uh, Mr. Khoury's, I think, false account of Israeli and Zionist history.

Uh, 600,000 Jews, uh, were not dominant when they declared the state, uh, and were, uh, on the basis of UN Security Council, uh, uh, a General Assembly resolution, and were invaded by six Arab countries.

And when Egypt offered peace with Israel, Israel didn't hold on to territory three times its size but rather traded it for peace with Egypt.

No, Israel is not out for territory.

Why do you think Netanyahu wants to keep this going? Does he see a political necessity as we get close to elections? What's your take?

Had they always planned when that was gonna happen, they were going to, uh, hit Lebanon and hit Hezbollah, too?

Yes, I think you're right.

Uh, it was, uh, an opportunity that, uh, Hezbollah provided, uh, Israel with.

Um, I think that, uh, Nabil was right in referencing Gaza in this context, but from an Israeli perspective, it's a different dimension.

Um, since October 7th, uh, '23, uh, something quite substantial has changed in Israeli mindset, uh, security and otherwise.

Uh, and that is, um, a lesson learned, uh, not to wait, uh, until adversaries strike, and not to count on our appreciation, understanding of intentions, uh, but to rather focus on capabilities.

Um, and the, uh, pendulum, in my judgment, has swung too far in the other direction, uh, whereas, uh, there is a sentiment that, uh, if we can, we should.

Naim Qassem, many observers say, is no Hassan Nasrallah.