I mean, let's start off, like orientate us around, tell us what being a hostage negotiator is like, what it's all about, how does fear show up and how did fear show up? How did you encounter fear in all its different ways?

Yeah, so this is actually really weird.

I kind of feel like I'm on the psychologist's couch because actually when I was negotiating, I didn't actually feel fear at all.

I don't think that I did.

You were always nervous because of the circumstances that you were deploying to, but fear was never something that I actually really thought about.

So I was a hostage negotiator for 10 years.

I deployed to just over 130 incidents.

And I'm wondering what happens when fear takes you by surprise in kind of those situations? Yeah.