What, what does the Red Tails environment do for, for young people?

Yeah, um, I started in Red Tails pretty, started in Red Tails pretty early.

Um, back then we didn't have a lot of pathways, but we still somehow found ways to, uh, play a Port Magpies, Port Adelaide Magpies game one time just to, for a bit of exposure.

Um, and down the track a bit more, we had a pathway through South Adelaide and North Adelaide, and that's how I sorta came about with the whole North Adelaide situation.

Um-But yeah, I, I've been involved with Red Tails for quite a long time now, and I said at the start they helped me with employment and all the sort of stuff that I didn't really necessarily care about as a kid growing up in Alice.

Um, but they really changed my mindset, and then from that point on I sorta...

It made me realize that footy was a vehicle just to move me forward and, um, grow me as a person.

So how did the connection to Merbein, and it w- it was obviously through Hallie, and how did you sort of come about to be joint coach at Merbein?