What thing sticks out as something that you've tried to or have measured that's not usually measurable?

Hmm.

Such a good question.

Uh, you know, I...

There are outputs and outcomes.

The outputs are the easy things to measure.

The outcomes are the harder things to measure.

Yeah

OK, so as you reflect on your almost 30 year career, what experiences first convinced you that schools were often measuring the wrong things?

You know, I think when I first started getting into particularly in the K-12 space, I've spent some time in higher education and in K-12 before I went off on my own, so to speak.

But working in K-12 schools, what I would see is a lot of really hard working people not seeing the results that they wanted to see.

And when we would get called in, myself and a team of people that I worked with, to work with schools that weren't getting the results and they needed to convene a team to help make things better, school improvement teams, we would look through the data and help to set plans.

And that really is where I started to see that we weren't necessarily measuring the right things.

We might be looking at attendance when really it was an issue of involvement.

We might be looking at thinking it's an absence issue when after we did a predictive model, we found that it was tardiness that was the bigger issue.

Give me, share an example of one or two schools that have been transformed and redefined.

the

container, it's hard to get it back in.

And, you know, there's, there's, There's always the question of funding.

When we do a SWOT analysis, strengths, opportunities, weakness, and threats, always under threat funding is a given.

There's always funding.

But then the question is, if we had unlimited resources, is that going to fix everything? If we had the grant funding, blank check.

Is it going to make everything better? And then that's, it's usually, well, no, there's something else.

Or