But how did you get there? What did your career look like?

So I, yeah, in a nutshell, I studied graphic communication design.

So I studied in London, studied information design.

I was kind of really interested in how information was communicated and broken down and people understood it.

I was lucky enough to do this kind of year in industry which was at the time I didn't still do it is a great course because it meant that I got the chance to kind of take a bunch of internships in different places and it kind of taught me as much of what I don't want to do as what I did want to do and I you know worked in different design studios and and what it really helped me understand Dan is like what's the sort of job I might want to go into and through that I ended up with an internship at Pentagram which then turned into a job and so I had a really an amazing couple of years learning about the fundamentals of good graphic design and corporate branding and typography and it was just the most amazing kind of finishing school in graphic design of what's visual excellence and how to really stand out in a crowd and and also really learned like we did some really arty projects like book covers and art store kind of visuals but then we also did some really kind of corporate branding like big corporate branding for painting manufacturers and things like this so they were really um quite different projects and it helped me understand how you take commercial you know really creative ideas but then they also have to translate into really big commercial applications um But the long and short of it, I was there, but I kind of knew at the time that it was when, you know, the mobile phones, smartphones had not long come out.

So responsive design was sort of in its infancy.

And I really was pretty interested in the digital world because to me, it always felt like...

So where do you see these tools coming? being genuinely helpful in a publishing or digital design space? And where do you think that the human perspective becomes ever more important, doubling down on its need

and speaking of antidepressant I want to ask we've seen through studies through real people's living experiences that sometimes you go to a doctor and you're given antidepressants and it could be for all of these things that we've named here today does studies show, does like antidepressants actually help with this or is it just masking it? So, this is a very, very good

question.

Okay, so the likes, like the antidepressants definitely play a role in some people.

Okay? And I often see them given, so...

Unfortunately, you'd see the antidepressants first and then you'd see the hormone therapy coming into play, like your HRT, your estrogen and your progesterone.

But I do see that they do work well together.

They can work well together.

all private care and all the rest of it and I know a lot of my listeners listening in you know struggle to get their hands on this type of knowledge so if someone was to come to your clinic or reach out to you or make an appointment with you what can they get from your services?