I started by asking Nick about those losses and what he learned from them.

I've tried a hundred and sixty-eight cases.

I have fourteen cases that I consider losses.

I think nine of those are actual defense verdicts.

There are five of them that I, I consider a loss.

I could say, "Oh, look at...

Look, look, it was a multimillion dollar verdict," but the truth is, it's a loss because I was offered more money than what I won at trial, you know? And, and so I'm, I'm, I'm transparent about those things.

Um, how did you come up with that, and h- and how do you differentiate between brutal honesty and being brutally honest? 'Cause it's two different things.

It's been invaluable to me.

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But so we're, since he was mentioning how you helped him with the, uh, with his, his first case and sent Jake up there, and I was mentioning how you and I were friends at the Trial Lawyers College, and-

and-You invited me to come out and watch you speak in 2012, and let me stage a place, and I wouldn't be s- probably sitting in this chair today interviewing the great Brandon Yoshi, but for those, those connections.

So, so I know you're running your program here, so-