And so he's actually faced some challenges this year, and he's creating a ton of first pressure for the Ravens, which is exactly what they basically missed since they lost Clowney, is a guy who can really generate those first pressures at a fairly predictable and significant rate.

Yeah, I think the next step for Minter really is to figure out how are opposing quarterbacks adjusting to the type of pressure they're getting from Hendrickson when he isn't able – like he was able to really convert speed to power really well in that first game.

But he wasn't able to do that quite as well against Banks or against Guyton and had to work up and around them a little bit more.

And Shug and Prescott were both very, very good at stepping up.

But I think part of that was – You know, the rest of the Ravens pressure scheme wasn't was leaving too much open in those areas when Hendrickson went too far afield and he was getting the pressure and logging a pressure.

He was impacting the quarterback.

He's doing his job.

What do you think the Ravens could do to address this? Another what do you think the Ravens could do to fix the defense question?

How about, how about another one? 'Cause there's so many in this game.

Uh, I mean, I, I think m- maybe I'll go, go a little reverse chronology here and, and zoom all the way back early on to when the Ravens, um, you know, missed that fourth and one.

Um, that early fourth and one conversion.

Uh, it, it, it's the right decision.

I think this is another instance of the Ravens are needing to figure out what to do in short yardage.

These high leverage, like very clear short yardage situations were, you know, an issue under Monken too.

This is not something that's like, oh, Doyle come in and the Ravens forgot how to get a yard.

Uh, any, any difference of opinion there?

gosh, is that even the right question to ask? Maybe we need a new definition of consciousness, and even if we had one, who cares? What do you read into that?

There's so many questions that came out of that.

Using X formally, Twitter is amazing because your feed is just whatever you're into.

In my feed, the AI and consciousness debate is like 90% of the feed, and there's like violent opinions on two sides about it right and there's the uh what some people call like the functionalists which basically say computation is about inside consciousness is about the function it achieves so if an AI looks conscious it is and then there's other folks who believe that no there's some deeper essence to consciousness for example it's tied to a biological substrate it can't just be silicon etc etc right And so that debate is, unfortunately, it's like kind of irreconcilable.

They start with like just different worldviews, like with two different people with different religions, which are both equally valid, but like in their own reference frame, right? I saw Richard Dawkins.

Richard Dawkins is great at like very pushing out very controversial stuff, right? So you also have to kind of, he's brilliant, but there's a selection bias, right? Like just read anything he writes about religion and God.

And he literally- And so I think that, I think some of it I like was like, okay, here's Richard Dawkins being Richard Dawkins again, finding something controversial.

Um, what's, what's your reply? I mean, as a parent, as the, you know, the wise one in the room, like what do you say to kids?

itAnd that led to some, some really additional yards of value from that.

Yeah, and you had the one interception.

I thought it was really funny that after the game, Jesse Minter said that he liked the throw that Fagnano made on that interception, which just to quickly recall that he was rolling right on second down in the red zone and threw across his body to the back of the end zone.

Not really, and Fagnano admitted this in the locker room after the game, that that's a ball he should have chucked out of bounds.

But I just, you mentioned the coach speak.

I just thought it was really interesting.

Jesse was like, "No, actually, I like that pass.

Yeah.

But Pocic doesn't really seem to be ready based on his usage, usage more than his actual play.

Clearly he was just excited to be back out on a football field.

So those, that, that I don't blame him for.

But yeah, w- Pocic played 14 snaps, Pinter played 15, and you just listen to how we're talking about them right now.

They were fine.

They didn't embarrass themself.

They didn't, you know, they didn't have any horrific plays.

Uh, just a fine game, I thought, from Reed as well.

Yeah.

And it changed a lot, by the way.

SaaS has bounced back a lot in the stock market.

Yeah, exactly.

two weeks.

So that's, it's like changes every day.

And I think in general, like what's going to happen in the business world is I believe is volatility is just going to be like even more than it's been.

But I just wanted to pick your brain a little bit on, is this something new? Is this something old? Is this the new face of customer success? What are we really talking about here, Nick?

What do you see given that? What do you see as some of the biggest challenges today for the industry itself and then for customer success professionals and leaders?

Yeah.

So we actually did this presentation at our Pulse conference about six weeks ago.

And basically we talked about this idea that the future of subscription businesses is this idea of having a more durable approach to growth, right? In the last 10 years with all this crazy, all the money that was out there, the funding, it was growth at all costs.

and companies spend a lot of money on new sales and marketing and burn a lot of money and the economics didn't matter.

And somehow concepts now like profit and EBITDA are coming back into fashion, right? And so the question is, how do you grow in a more durable and efficient way? And what are the challenges to that? So starting not at customer success, but let's start with a bigger problem.

And so if you looked at that kind of challenge of durable growth and you said, what are the things that people are struggling with right now? One thing people struggle with still to this day is the idea that unless you really have built your foundation of customer success, you're still surprised too often.

Yeah.

It's gonna be hard for Dawkins to earn those.

Yeah, that's, that's, that's another great point.

Um, he would, it, it seems like with his size, he would benefit from cross-training at guard, um, at, at some point, whether that's in, whether that's in Baltimore or elsewhere.

Uh, he's, he's a, he's a, you know, he is the size for it.

Uh, he's a, he's a good athlete.

He te- I, I should say he tested well.

Sometimes I don't feel like the explosiveness that he tested with shows up on film in the same way, um, off the snap.

Let's, uh, let's move on to what a great season looks like for Mike Green.

Was that a good thing?

Yeah.

It's funny.

Yes, I remember that very well.

And I don't remember if it was like 2017, 2018 in that time frame.

And we started in 2013, to give you a rough idea.

So we weren't that big of a company, but we had something to lose.

Mm-hmm.

How can leaders kind of model vulnerability? But because you've done this so well, not make it feel like performative or risky, but make it feel truly authentic.

Yeah, I mean, it's interesting.

First of all, like everyone should always kind of give the credit, the trademark to a Brene Brown, who's the one who really kind of popularized this in business.

Right.

And everyone knows that.

But I think that like for me, it is you hit on something really important.

And I think it's the worst possible thing to have it be performative.

I was there.