So for those people who, when they hear that phrase, outdoor education, I mean, I i sort of associate it with i remember my kids going away for a residential that kind of thing take us into first of all where where you are and and what those um experiences are that you're able to provide and i know you're able to tailor it depending on the circumstances as well so for those people who are like okay i'm not quite sure where where we are with this sort of trying to give us that sort of picture

I think probably the easiest way to describe it is if we look at outdoor activity and outdoor education.

Outdoor activity is you are going to just do, in effect, a task.

We're going to go, I don't know, to go out when we climb around the trees.

Outdoor education needs that almost not quantifiable, but almost that reason why you're doing it to kind of look at risk management, facing fears, challenge by choice, pushing yourself.

And that's the way we kind of approach it of going, the kids are not just doing activity, they're not just doing zip wire, they're not just doing climbing.

There is a fundamental learning objective to it from there.

And do you think there's also that sense now of the amount of... bureaucracy that comes in the amount of time and organization that it takes just with teachers also especially younger teachers coming in it's not part of their experience in the same way it's almost hard enough just to deliver what they're thinking they're expected to do within the school without taking this whole thing extra outside of school um i guess it depends on the teacher in the school and and and the environment but i wonder if there's a trend there somewhere that you're seeing