But over $200, it's not a surprise.

No, it's not a surprise, Tim.

Just reminding your listeners that fares for Rankin Hill, including...

So these aren't made-up fares or just an estimate that we've put there to say, oh, we think we'll charge this much or whatever we like.

It's actually a regulated fare structure in the same way whether you're getting a taxi from Sydney Airport or anywhere else.

And I guess you're likening it to someone getting a trip from Sydney Airport and going to Parramatta or to Penrith.

There's obviously no surprises there on those trips.

Is that how it works out there?

Surely it can say that.

Look, like I said, you know, I don't know whether there would be anything such as a short fare trip when it comes to Western Sydney Airport because of the proximity of some of those key locations, Mark, that you mentioned.

But we've got to be mindful that also, you know, we want to make sure that fares are affordable and reasonable for passengers.

But at the same time, We can't shortchange drivers, you know, for their time and the work that they've got to do to get those passengers where they need to be.

So I think to your point, Mark, you know, if there is a view that these prices are just, you know, whether it be not workable or not.

or difficult to, I guess, from an operational perspective, then maybe we need to work with government to look at how they can maybe look to subsidise some of these fares to make sure that it's still viable for drivers, but at the same time, affordable for passengers to be able to get to where they want to, and that taxis, play a very important role, Mark, especially, you know, as the governments are working through the transport infrastructure, right, and particularly the metros and so forth.

So, taxis will play a vital role and we want to make sure that we maximise that opportunity to make sure it's affordable and reliable for passengers that want to use

If a passenger lands at Western Sydney Airport and needs to get to, say, Sydney Olympic Park for a game of footy or whatever to support their team, knowing full well that if they get a rideshare service and it's going to cost them $80 as opposed to $149, what do you think they're going to do? They're going to take the Uber as opposed to the taxi, are they not?

Surely it can say that.

Look, like I said, you know, I don't know whether there would be anything such as a short fare trip when it comes to Western Sydney Airport because of the proximity of some of those key locations, Mark, that you mentioned.

But we've got to be mindful that also, you know, we want to make sure that fares are affordable and reasonable for passengers.

But at the same time, We can't shortchange drivers, you know, for their time and the work that they've got to do to get those passengers where they need to be.

So I think to your point, Mark, you know, if there is a view that these prices are just, you know, whether it be not workable or not.

or difficult to, I guess, from an operational perspective, then maybe we need to work with government to look at how they can maybe look to subsidise some of these fares to make sure that it's still viable for drivers, but at the same time, affordable for passengers to be able to get to where they want to, and that taxis, play a very important role, Mark, especially, you know, as the governments are working through the transport infrastructure, right, and particularly the metros and so forth.

So, taxis will play a vital role and we want to make sure that we maximise that opportunity to make sure it's affordable and reliable for passengers that want to use

If a passenger lands at Western Sydney Airport and needs to get to, say, Sydney Olympic Park for a game of footy or whatever to support their team, knowing full well that if they get a rideshare service and it's going to cost them $80 as opposed to $149, what do you think they're going to do? They're going to take the Uber as opposed to the taxi, are they not?

And why is this? Because you felt that MA cabs had more than just a few rogue cabbies? No.

Look, Ben, we've spoken about MAE previously and, you know, we've been talking about this for a long while and we've had other measures in the past with work we've done with Sydney Airport, with our concierge programs.

And unfortunately, the reports coming our way, whether it be to do with their operating systems, like the meters, as you rightfully noted, or their policies and procedures, even the way they handle complaints or the lack of complaints, and the volume of their complaints have always been a concern for us.

So we were really pleased to see the steps taken by the Point to Point Transport Commission.

I do want to acknowledge the commission in this regard, working with the industry as well, but also sending a strong message that this type of activity and behaviour won't be tolerated.

And just to be very clear, Ben, we're not talking about drivers are still in the wrong thing operator we're talking about a service provider you know the company that's actually running the fleet of taxis condoning this type of behavior well that's not on and the message i have to them and anyone any other rogues that want to operate this way is get the hell out of my industry enough is enough and we are fed up and industry is absolutely fed up and and and our concerns are there ben

and so we shouldn't be seeing any ma cabs on the road but are they disguising themselves under other names

Well, firstly, no, you shouldn't be seeing any MA cabs on the road.

So they've obviously changed that completely.

Right.

Well, exactly.

And I see an opportunity because, you know, a lot of passengers are still using taxis.

They prefer the option of how they choose to pay.

But let's remember, in the taxi space, we've got the Rankin-Howell market.

So, A, that option needs to be there.

Once

But what's your opinion on this, mate?

Look, I think there are two real issues with this move by Uber.

One is around personal safety, and that's the passenger safety, members of the public.

And the second one is around financial security for customers.

And one of the issues you've touched on, Trent, around creating this black market opportunity, that's a serious issue around encouraging drivers to facilitate their own payments.

And before we know it, they'll be facilitating their own bookings Meaning, you know, encourages drivers to, you know, to deal directly with customers.

And at the moment, that's illegal.

Can you just explain that?

But what's your opinion on this, mate?

Look, I think there are two real issues with this move by Uber.

One is around personal safety, and that's the passenger safety, members of the public.

And the second one is around financial security for customers.

And one of the issues you've touched on, Trent, around creating this black market opportunity, that's a serious issue around encouraging drivers to facilitate their own payments.

And before we know it, they'll be facilitating their own bookings Meaning, you know, encourages drivers to, you know, to deal directly with customers.

And at the moment, that's illegal.

Can you just explain that?

Nick, go right ahead.

Hi.

Good morning, Chris.

Firstly, thank you so much for your support and, um, airing this very important, uh, issue, uh, in regards to CTP.

And look, all we're asking for, Chris, is, um, to level the playing field, uh, between taxis and rideshare.

SIRA have, have come out and, uh, and made it clear that, uh, rideshare are at, uh, almost 300% higher risk, uh, than your private vehicles, uh, in regards to the risk of having, um, an, an accident, uh, and, and potentially, um, involving CTP.

Yet they are still put in the same class, that's class one, with millions of other private vehicles and our operators are paying, you know, $500 to $700, uh, for their, their premiums, whereas...

Upfront premiums, not premiums which is somehow measured by the number of trips and kilometers they do by the mothership at Uber.

Are you ready for driverless cabs?

We're keen and I know the New South Wales government has got this massive appetite to be one of the first to market with these driverless cabs but I think it's very clear that we've got some way to go with these trails but also establishing an appropriate regulatory framework that ensures the safety and guidelines around driverless taxis.

So look, great idea but I think we are some way away from this actually happening.

And you're not wrong about the secret documents because there hasn't been a lot revealed to us as well.

So we're hearing this firsthand as well, Ben.

What does that mean for the New South Wales Taxi Council?

Look, it's an extension of all the great work that's already being done with the New South Wales taxi industry, transporting children, whether it be with a disability or getting to medical attention on a day-to-day basis.

It's an opportunity to extend that hand further and support sick kids.