So how do we engage with challenges when sometimes there's no settled policy? There are these big gaps when things aren't entirely clear.

Uh, I think some of the things we need to really consider, obviously, is the student voice.

That's something that we often forget about.

We're certainly improving in that regard.

Um, one of the concerns obviously around policy is, and certainly within school leadership research, is it consistently shows that the loudest voices are heard when it comes to developing policy.

So we saw that in, in the last decade, this real push for literacy and numeracy policies on foot of, of PISA studies.

And we often prioritize these more measurable aspects of education in advance of the things that are less measured.

Yeah.