Oh, right

...

in Edinburgh, and then we both were at Nottingham together, where we developed this theory of containers, and, um, Thorsten has always been a, a source of inspiration.

Um, his p- his views on mathematics, especially on, on different formalisms and foundations and what they're useful for, and some of them are not so useful for other things.

All of these things have been, uh, it's always been a pleasure to listen to Thorsten.

Um, as Thorsten says, we invented these things called containers, and we just wanted to do some data type theory, and it's one of those, like, really weird things that you read about where someone, where people say, "Well, you know, you never quite know where science goes," you know.

And they talk about, you know, all sorts of examples where someone invented something, and then 20 years later, it was the pivotal thing that unlocked something completely different.

these fluffy boundaries between inputs and-