People can walk away the moment that they kind of stop enjoying something, so what has that taught you about giving people a reason to spend time with something creatively?

Yeah, that's a great question.

It's, you know, it's something that, uh, that we deal with in both of these pursuits, whether it's, is how do we compete for people's attention? Because it is more difficult than ever.

People have a million distractions around them all of the time.

It is hard to get someone who is sitting right in front of you to listen to what you are saying.

Uh, and the challenge with making a board game or with making marketing is that you can't even be there across from the table when people are interacting with the things that you have made.

Uh, and so like in board game terms, I always think, you know, you have to put everything inside the box.

How do you feel like that affects whether the work is enjoyable to spend time with? Because I feel like that's such a vague ask that it could mean a lot of things, and maybe the person isn't even meaning what they're saying or what they're trying to communicate.