So how, how did you two first begin exploring this work together, and what common vision emerged?

Yeah.

So, um, [clears throat] as we started the Career and Life Integration program at UT Austin, which is what we call our life design framework and curriculum across campus, um, [clears throat] I was really, really excited that the college that stepped up and said, "We wanna be your pilot project," was the College of Fine Arts.

Um, this was special for a lot of reasons.

One, in a former life, I was the director of career services for the College of Fine Arts at the University of Texas at Austin.

I got to work with, um, Ramon directly on, you know, working through the career journey of these amazing fine arts students.

And also, my first life is in classical music.

Yes.