[laughs]

Uh, but, um, no.

So you may recall, um, if you think back to...

Well, let's, let's actually set this up initially with something that we talked about in our first interview.

So I'd mentioned that I'd been working on this horror project, They Dwelle Among Us.

That's, that came across John Irwin's desk, um, of Kingdom Story.

That's how I started talking with Lionsgate and so on.

Yeah.

But

no, so you may recall, if you think back to, well, let's actually set this up initially with something that we talked about in our first interview.

So I'd mentioned that I'd been working on this horror project, They Dwell Among Us.

That came across John Irwin's desk of Kingdom Story.

That's how I started talking with Lionsgate and so on.

The reason that's important is, well, we'll get to it.

But just to remind people of a little bit of that background.

modern trend has been to drop the the on everything, hasn't

Could you take us through how that came about and why it didn't happen in the end? Sure.

So just by way of background here, I'll give a quick little biographical sketch since I'm guessing that people on your channel probably don't know who I am.

But I'm an artist turned scholar of philosophy of religion turned filmmaker.

And so I went on this, I started out in art school, fine arts, painting and drawing.

And then actually due to a bad LSD trip, I ended up going out on this long spiritual religious journey that ended up, I accumulated all sorts of degrees in church history, historical theology and philosophy and all these different areas.

Eventually became a college professor, a reputable scholar in different fields.

Along the way though, I started working in film, which was unexpected.

So there's a lot there, but what would you say is going on with all of that and that trajectory? Yeah.

Mm.

And the reason is because they see image as that inherent capacity, right? That we are rational, free beings.

We're fully capable of imitating God and becoming virtuous and when deciding what we are to become, making ourselves something good.

But at the same time, um, the-- we are not yet that, right? And that's the likeness part.

And so there is a recognition that the likeness is actually the active imitation of God.

So that is actually the, the active working out of those sorts of things.

And so within the Eastern Fathers, they don't look at the Adam and Eve story and they don't-- in there, they don't see Adam and Eve as perfect and things we're trying to get back to.

Yeah.

Okay.

[clears throat] [chair creaks] Hey, everybody.

Nathan Jacobs with the Nathan Jacobs Podcast here with you.

Those of you who follow my channel regularly, you notice that we've moved to this new format, which I had promised, about doing these more concise videos, things that are more in the 25 to 45-minute range, and we've been dropping those every Thursday.

But as promised, I said we weren't going to completely stop doing the long form content.

So here, on this Tuesday, we're gonna be going ahead and dropping an interview, a longer form interview.

[chuckles]

It doesn't have to be one point perspective.

Well, I mean, full disclosure,

not that it's disclosure to you, but I'm Eastern Orthodox, right? And so I don't know if it's relevant to talk about my journey, but obviously you watched me go through that spiritual journey where I was in crisis.

That's why I was studying philosophy.

That's why I was studying theology and church history and all these things like that.

And toying with all sorts of heretical ideas very publicly.

And, um, and eventually, you know, being like Chris, you know, my doctoral studies, all of my philosophical heresies being upset by the Eastern church fathers and eventually being like, I think this is the thing that I've been looking for my whole life and going that route.

So, um, I suppose it's probably relevant for me to speak to the question of, you know, from an orthodox perspective, right? From the perspective of me as somebody who carries those commitments, would I agree with what you just said? And let me frame this as by way of a little bit of a settles sort of, let's say, crisis.

Yes.