You know, how can they sift through this?

Yeah.

Yeah, and I outline this in a lot more detail in the book.

So just want to kind of put that out there for people.

But most of the time when someone comes in, and I don't often, very rarely do we deal with people who are actually manifesting a demon.

It has happened.

I have also worked with law enforcement on cases where I firmly believe that the person they were dealing with was demonized.

is a

Terms and conditions apply.

The people hurt by all those different camps end up in a therapy office often.

They just do.

So we've got to be prepared to to help people understand.

And I love the church.

You know, I say I'm a Baptist.

I'm not I'm not.

What do you want to comment on that?

[clears throat]

... and rough adolescent years, so I wanted to... went into therapy and that led me to want to do that one day," that wasn't my story.

My story was being raised by people who were servant-hearted and who wanted to be about God's work and helping people in the body, and my mom worked in, um, a guidance office in a local high school, and I got to interact with a lot of the people that she worked with in the counseling field.

So that actually made me think about that as a career.

So I went into originally being a school counselor, and did that for about 10 years, and then God led me into the private practice realm.

And honestly, if you would've told me as a teenager, "This is what you're gonna grow up to do and be one day," I would've thought you were crazy.

[laughs]

There's a spiritual component to this that is either feeding the psychological or making worse the psychological.'"

So could you talk a little bit about that?

Yeah, sure.

That's really kind of part of what led me into doing a different style of assessment and treatment is from anecdotal, you know, just seeing things in session.

And I have over 20 clinicians in my practice.

And so we we often get to talk to each other and talk about the experiences we're seeing.

So there's kind of a natural data set there, for lack of a better way of putting it.

And we have all noticed since probably COVID, just the more darker experiences that people had started reporting that they were having, whether they were having things such as sleep paralysis on a more ongoing basis that wasn't tied to a sleep disorder, experiences that seemed really dark associated with the church.

What do you do then?

So could you talk a little bit about that?

Yeah, sure.

That's really kind of part of what led me into doing a different style of assessment and treatment is from anecdotal, you know, just seeing things in session.

And I have over 20 clinicians in my practice.

And so we we often get to talk to each other and talk about the experiences we're seeing.

So there's kind of a natural data set there, for lack of a better way of putting it.

And we have all noticed since probably COVID, just the more darker experiences that people had started reporting that they were having, whether they were having things such as sleep paralysis on a more ongoing basis that wasn't tied to a sleep disorder, experiences that seemed really dark associated with the church.

What do you do then?

But before we get too deep, why don't you describe what you do, how you got into it, where did you get, how did you get to where you are with the work that you do?

Well, I am a licensed clinical mental health counselor in the state of North Carolina, but I also teach in the clinical mental health counseling program at Liberty University.

So I have a wide range of different things I do.

I consult with businesses and I like to do mission work.

Basically, if there's someone who's struggling with mental health issues, I want to be there to help as much as I possibly can, as much as God allows me to.

So that's kind of who I am.

I'm a mom.

really

What, do you feel like there's like a, spiritual element just behind besides saying evil do you feel like oh this person is dealing with this like even if is a very human aspect it's like there's a there's like a spiritual element behind that influencing it or encouraging it do you do you feel like you see that regularly your practice

Yeah, I definitely do.

I mean, especially I mean, one could argue, yes, we're looking at it from a more comprehensive level by assessing things now in practice.

That's really the biggest change that's come with them.

I practice is that we're assessing for spiritual darkness after we've gone through the normal mental health routes and.

modalities of treatment and we feel like there's something else going on here we need to dig a little bit deeper we'll do more comprehensive assessment of what i call other influences because we don't want to just come out and say hey there's some evil influences in your life yeah you know you kind of have to approach it in a you know a little bit more palatable way i guess you could say and Then once we do assess it and we figure out that there might be an, you know, in spiritual terms, like an open door where an influence could have come in and impacted them in a way, then we will, you know, go about treatment that way.

But it really depends on.

What's, what are the things that kind of happened to him?

Maybe some of it could be different, but I'd be curious how that plays out in someone's life.

Sometimes it is clear-cut.

Sometimes they come in and it's very evident that there's some dark things that they're associated with or have been associated with.

Like for example, I think childhood sexual abuse is extremely dark.

Anyone who has abused a child in that manner, you will never convince me there's no- not some level of evil influence associated with that.

Um, so there's that.

But so sometimes it is very obvious, but then at times it's not.

Mm-hmm.

So I would love for you to just help our listeners know, what would you say are some early warning signs that indicate a girl might be struggling beyond just normal developmental stress?

Yeah, so I would definitely look at patterns of behaviors.

Any attempts at self-harm are a huge red flag or even talking about self-harm.

And the reason I say that is because self-harm specifically, we were not designed to want to hurt ourselves or to want to be in pain like humans.

Yes, we can handle pain, but self-harm is not something coming from within oneself.

I strongly believe that is one specifically that is coming from the enemy.

He wants to kill, steal, and destroy.

I'd love to know what patterns do you most frequently see today in girls? Like if they're going to have anxiety, depression, perfectionism, self-harm, ideation, if that's going to come to the surface, how are these adolescent girls presenting differently than maybe your work in the past?

Get your free digital copy by subscribing to The Remnant Radio's newsletter at theremnantradio.com.

theremnantradio.com.Yeah, so that worldview really gave me the supernatural lens for scripture that I was meeting, and it helped me understand things like giants.

It helped me understand, you know, even the Joshua story, that it wasn't genocide, that there were other parts of things that humans did that w- that were not good that really impact this humanity until this day.

So, in a lot of ways, and, you know, and I go through in my book what the divine council worldview is from Heiser's perspective and the Deuteronomy 32 worldview, which is basically that there were fallen beings who fell, and those fallen beings are a part of the principalities, what we would call them in Earth today, and they are influencing humanity.

Now, you know, they don't ha- we still have free will, we still have voice and all those things, but I think as humans in the world, we need to understand that there are influences out there that are dark.

And I think before, I didn't disbelieve in, in demons, I just kinda grouped them all together, and I, you know, kind of glazed over that scripture about we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, powers of darkness, spiritual forces of wickedness and having new places.

And I think the church in general kind of groups it all as demons and then just moves on.

In your book, would you kind of unpack that story for us and a little bit about what you learned from that experience?