it sounds like it i mean i've only had the chance to be in the surety space about 10 years now in 40 years you must have seen so much change

absolutely a lot of change well first of all there weren't a lot of women in the industry when i when i started so that has changed a lot and i know we did a whole segment on women in surety so i won't do too much of a plug on that but it is a great organization for women coming into the industry for professional development, for networking and support.

So that has changed a lot.

And then we've also bifurcated the different types of surety.

Contract is specialized, commercial is specialized, and fidelity is somewhere else.

But also how those two lines have integrated is Not that you want to necessarily have claims in the industry, but things happen.

But it used to be so siloed that if you were a contract underwriter and if by some chance your clients had a challenge and it made its way into the claim group, you never talked to each other about it.

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