And so through these two mechanisms, the chance of surviving has improved.

I do think that breast cancer is one of the areas where we really have unequivocal evidence from my perspective that mammography can have an impact.

We have half a dozen randomized trials that have been done over a long period of time that suggest that there's an impact.

I think the challenge for consumers, people like me, is that the guidelines have shifted over time as we learn more going along.

And you're right that the guidelines are not ironclad.

different groups might have different recommendations about how people should proceed.

But I think that the current thinking would be, first of all, Derek, that we're a lot less focused right now on breast self-exam than we used to be.

Can you tell us a little bit more about the role of advocacy? What have been the positives and what are some of the points of friction?

And so through these two mechanisms, the chance of surviving has improved.

I do think that breast cancer is one of the areas where we really have unequivocal evidence from my perspective that mammography can have an impact.

We have half a dozen randomized trials that have been done over a long period of time that suggest that there's an impact.

I think the challenge for consumers, people like me, is that the guidelines have shifted over time as we learn more going along.

And you're right that the guidelines are not ironclad.

different groups might have different recommendations about how people should proceed.

But I think that the current thinking would be, first of all, Derek, that we're a lot less focused right now on breast self-exam than we used to be.

Can you tell us a little bit more about the role of advocacy? What have been the positives and what are some of the points of friction?

Can you tell us that story?

Yeah, it's also a wonderful story.

And it goes back to a variety of people who are great epidemiologists, including my colleague here at the University of Washington, Mary Claire King.

So Mary Claire, decades ago, went out thinking that in some cases, breast cancer seems to be hereditary.

That generation after generation after generation, that there would be a high preponderance of breast cancer in the women and sometimes actually in the men as well.

And so she did classic epidemiology to try to locate where on the chromosomes, the genetic material, that we all carry, what might track, right? What would be the abnormalities that might track? And she found a particular area on chromosome 17, one of the chromosomes that we have.

Finally, using the molecular techniques that are now widely available to find the changes in the genes that cause this.

And could you explain that?

Can you tell us that story?

Yeah, it's also a wonderful story.

And it goes back to a variety of people who are great epidemiologists, including my colleague here at the University of Washington, Mary Claire King.

So Mary Claire, decades ago, went out thinking that in some cases, breast cancer seems to be hereditary.

That generation after generation after generation, that there would be a high preponderance of breast cancer in the women and sometimes actually in the men as well.

And so she did classic epidemiology to try to locate where on the chromosomes, the genetic material, that we all carry, what might track, right? What would be the abnormalities that might track? And she found a particular area on chromosome 17, one of the chromosomes that we have.

Finally, using the molecular techniques that are now widely available to find the changes in the genes that cause this.

And could you explain that?