The Paper, new season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock.

This show gives me a reason to laugh.

He's, like I said, he's great with his kids.

But here's the thing, it's like, you know, these sorts of very toxic relationships, and they happen all the time, and all we have to do is turn on the news, and, I mean, we see them all the time.

They're very hard to endure, but for me...

it made me really look deep inside of myself.

And I took it as an opportunity.

traits.

Can you start by telling us what led you from surviving that high profile relationship to becoming a therapist who now helps break free from trauma bonds?

Yeah, sure.

So right.

I was in the quintessential trauma bonds, you know, many moons ago, unbeknownst to me, right? Because nobody was using these words, narcissism, trauma bonds back then.

And I moved to California because I was living in New York with my ex and I really wanted a fresh start for my children.

And so my partner at the time lived there.

And so I picked us up and moved.

Why is that? And what makes those types of individuals so dangerous in relationships?

Why don't people notice it at that point in the con?

Yeah.

So, you know, this can happen very quickly where the mask falls, where the persona, you know, I like to call them Romeo, that they've been portraying to seduce you in or love con you in starts to slip.

And usually it's because you've gotten engaged.

They've moved you in.

You know, I got engaged within six months.

and married six months later, right? They've moved you in, you've become financially dependent on them.

What else are they getting from running these cons?

Oh,

interesting.

I just wanted to work with everybody, personality disorders, couples.

Then what happens in around 2018, 19, I saw all these beautiful, bright, smart women coming in, being abused, being betrayed, being controlled.

Wow.

And they said, we have a problem.

We're in the fifties.

What kind of things are they saying? That's

The books that I've written outside of prison, you're right, it takes for- it, it takes forever

...

it, it takes a long time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so what happened for me was that I was, I had a private practice in Los Angeles, and all of these bright, smart, beautiful women were coming inIn toxic, abusive relationships.

And I was like, "Are we in the 1950s still? Like, what's happening?" They're getting coercively controlled, they're getting betrayed, they're getting financially abused, emotionally abused.

... on social media? You know, that, stuff like that.

That's so beautiful

... that life happens as it happens.

When the movie came out, I didn't speak about it.

I had nothing to say.

I had absolutely nothing to say, and I wasn't just going to have a response to it because it came out, because then I'm still trauma bonded with Jordan, right? Then what he's doing is creating my action.

So I didn't have anything to say about it, and I let it go, and then what happened was I was doing my practice, still evolving as a person, and I saw all these beautiful, kind, smart, amazing women coming into my room, trauma bonded, coercively controlled, getting betrayed by their partners, emotionally, verbally abused, and I was like, "We have a fucking problem.

We have a problem.

But can you explain the difference between the pathological lover and how we can identify the difference in our lives?

Now knowing what you know now about your ex, How would you

spot a wolf in sheep's clothing? Back then when I was living it, you know, I had no idea.

And so the way that I would spot a wolf in sheep's clothing is, are they a love bomber? Do you get so much love and admiration and flattery and gifts from them right away? Those things seem wonderful, but often if they're too good to be true, they are.

And also, does the person's words match their actions, right? Do they actually follow up and say, do what they say they're going to do? And do they allow you to have boundaries? because a lot of pathological people don't respect your boundaries because they don't respect who you are as a person.

So as you see in the movie, Margot goes on a date as me, right? I go on a date with Jordan and I come home to an apartment full of flowers.

I mean, that was real.

So I lived in a small 800 square foot place and there was so many flowers in there that I couldn't fit in.

So is that how you feel that that was moments of grooming for you to become under his control? Yes.

Now, knowing what you know now about your ex, How would you

spot a wolf in sheep's clothing? Back then when I was living it, you know, I had no idea.

And so the way that I would spot a wolf in sheep's clothing is, are they a love bomber? Do you get so much love and admiration and flattery and gifts from them right away? Those things seem wonderful, but often if they're too good to be true, they are.

And also, does the person's words match their actions, right? Do they actually follow up and say, do what they say they're going to do? And do they allow you to have boundaries? because a lot of pathological people don't respect your boundaries because they don't respect who you are as a person.

So as you see in the movie, Margot goes on a date as me, right? I go on a date with Jordan and I come home to an apartment full of flowers.

I mean, that was real.

So I lived in a small 800 square foot place and there was so many flowers in there that I couldn't fit in.

Talk to me about you went and watched it with your son and Jordan.