have a vape

with me.

Did your mum pack that lunch for you, mate? But, you know, a couple of years later, he had two good years for St.

George.

You know, couldn't quite crack.

I think he might have played a bit of second level cricket at New South Wales.

Couldn't quite crack it there.

Where do you see him ranking with Cooper? You know, obviously probably not on par, but not far behind.

Mm

... to, to a batting technique.

And I didn't understand up until however long that how much, I think, your mental state and all that, um- Was how important that was to, to batting especially- Right ...

I think.

Um, but yeah, and, and I was always chasing the error I'd last made or the last, the last innings I'd, I'd managed to fuck up.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and go I, I got out, caught behind last, like, last game.

It sounds like that was your experience a little bit as well.

[laughs]

... you know, not fearing anything, um, the reality sort of sets in that, oh, geez, I've, I've actually got to start performing now.

I can't run on potential forever.

And, um, when that sets in, that you're sort of, you know, you, you understand you're only three or four games away from getting the sack at any point, um, you know, the...

Sometimes you can build up a bit of a fear of failure that can, that can definitely hold you back.

And I think I've spent a lot of my career as captain or as a leader trying to sort of remove that fear of failure and sort of, I guess, reword it as an opportunity to, to learn from our mistakes or to learn from our success in that moment, you know, rather than sort of fearing the opportunity that we might fail, um, or the chance that we might fail.

So just ch- sort of trying to change the language on how we, on how our teams and players sort of went into battle.

Can't imagine that's an easy balance.

[laughs]

... you know, not fearing anything, um, the reality sort of sets in that, "Oh, geez, I've, I've actually gotta start performing now.

I can't run on potential forever." And, um, when that sets in, that you're sort of, you know, you, you understand you're only three or four games away from getting the sack at any point, um, you know, the...

Sometimes you can build up a bit of a fear of failure that can, that can definitely hold you back, and I think I spent a lot of my career as captain or as a leader trying to sort of remove that fear of failure and sort of, I guess, reword it as an opportunity to, to learn from our mistakes or to learn from our success in that moment, you know, rather than sort of fearing the opportunity that we might fail, um, or the chance that we might fail.

So just ch- sort of trying to change the language on how we, on how our teams and players sort of went into battle, you know, when the, when guys got thrown the, the ball in the 50th over or the 20th over, or when we're stuck in a run chase with sort of two or three overs to go.

I hope I was able to sort of change the mentality of just a few players who maybe might have withdrawn themselves in those situations.

But then, you know, o- over years of tutorage and care, they were able to sort of walk tall-ly and proudly into those situations.

Can't imagine that's an easy balance.

How did you react when you heard that might have been the case?

Yeah, that was the case.

But, I mean...

Yeah, I was obviously disappointed.

I love the club and love being a part of the club.

But, you know, at the end of the day, I also understood the logic of, you know, last year wasn't my... realistically speaking wasn't my most productive year with bat in hand and decisions like that tend to happen when I guess a player of my age you're sort of expected to be performing more consistently and more often and otherwise clubs and teams would want to take that risk on a younger player that they can develop and that's all part and parcel of sport and professional cricket obviously I would have loved to continue with the Sixers but they didn't see it that way and that's fine but yeah there was interest elsewhere around to go and play for other big bash teams but but it just didn't feel right.

So it took me a little bit of time to make sure that that's what I was sure about and understanding that.

Looking back over those, what, 22 years, what's the one moment that stands out?

But then how you do find the courage to be able to tell your story.

My first, I appreciate that a very kind words.

Um, and, but I guess.

Yeah, it was a long journey in terms of the whole mental health thing that got me to actually, I guess, what I would call rock bottom that then I go, I can't keep living my life like this.

I've got to actually do something about this.

And I think sort of depression and anxiety had been sort of tickling under the bonnet from maybe 24 or 25 years of age.

And Like I was that punk 18, 19 year old kid that sort of came into the New South Wales system.

But, no, I think that was certainly a rule in my career as well.