Now, you started 12 years ago jumping right into the brick-and-mortar, and when you did that, had you already been in coffee and decided this is the vibe that I want, this is, these are my values, this is what I wanna deliver with kindness and mischief? What is the genesis of all of this for you?

I actually am a audiovisual engineer by trade.

So before K&M, I was working for Cirque du Soleil as a, not as a performer, because I definitely have bones, and I can't bend that way.

[laughs] But I was their 3D projectionist and live camera operator.

I love live events.

Before that, I worked at the Hollywood Bowl, and I just love that energy, right? Again, going back to that like people give me so much joy, that live energy of an event, of a concert, there's nothing like it.

And so I actually only worked at a mom-and-pop coffee shop serving Intelligentsia for like a, a year, and I actually got fired from that job because [laughs] my schedule was so crazy, and I was in my 20s and couldn't get my shit together.

this is hard," right? But this is a different kind of epiphany, and how do you tell the difference between those two feelings?