So how do you sell a studio three months into this four-year development roadmap saying, "Hey, we need to start thinking about this now so when you launch four years down the line, you're prepped to go"?

I think the sale has gotten easier.

Um, I think people are starting to recognize that.

Um, I think publishers are starting to recognize that.

I think at one point they probably went a little too far, um, in, in the live service boom became everything needs to be live service, and I think every game doesn't need to be live service.

But, you know, there are things even in single player games that, like how dynamics work and matchmaking and the utilization of AI and everything, that are not really based on the old single player concept so that, like, there are things that we're capable of doing in, with reg- regards to levels of scale.

So I th- I think that the, the biggest sale usually is first getting their engineering team to sort of, like, agree on what they really want, and then starting to build it out.

Where, where do you think gaming is heading and where your future exists?