Are you looking at the Packers now and have changed expectations that this could be a playoff team to this is probably not a playoff team?

Well, here's the thing that you have to talk about in season.

You have to look and say, like, okay, how is this team going to get better? And, you know, Josh Jacobs and Micah Parsons is how you're going to get better.

So I think because of that, you can't rule that out.

Although, you know, And losses are losses.

I thought that was a tough loss, like to lose to a team at home like that with Pennix, with all sorts of rust.

I just thought they were going to come out and just be the better team and move the ball more consistently.

Tell me about what game you're looking at this weekend that is potentially going to catch your eye.

What do you need to see from them tonight versus the Atlanta Falcons to win this game at Lambeau?

I think more consistency.

And we saw in flashes last week, Michelle, like there are certainly plays they make in the past game.

Christian Watson, we could see why they extended him.

Matthew Golden, to me, continues to improve.

But their offensive line is a concern.

Now, look, I think by the end of the season, if the four of us are having a conversation, I think we'll be talking about a jet defense that's probably better than expectations.

So it calls into question the head coach and the quarterback out there in L.A. And I wanted to ask you, who is closer to the perception of what they are in NFL circles? Jim Harbaugh or Justin Herbert?

All of us lose in Survivor, and we now have to have the conversation of, oh, is Deshaun Watson actually going to be the starter for the entirety of the season and maybe longer in Cleveland? Mike T, what do you make of Deshaun Watson's performance in that game?

It was stunning.

He played really good.

And I thought once we got into that weird suspended play, Theo, I thought that was an advantage to the defense just because I thought it was going to be so rusty for Tampa to come out and have to make a play to win the game.

So I think what's going to be interesting, Theo, is how do the Brown fans... react to Deshaun Watson for their home opener.

You know, he said some things which, to his credit, he's apologized.

And it's certainly been bumpy there.

What do you make of what the Chiefs are right now based on the offseason acquisitions as well as what you've seen in two primetime games?

Is there anyone that you like the most as far as a new coaching staff in the NFL? Yeah,

that's a really good question.

I'll tell you what, I'll give you one I was shocked by.

That was Michael LaFleur.

He really had a lot of questions and concerns about Arizona heading into the season, and that was the biggest upset of the week.

So I'm pleasantly surprised by that week one to win at the Chargers.

You know, Brissette was a little bit of a holdout.

Where are you at with Los Angeles? Do you think they'll be okay without Miles Garrett?

Do you buy this slash, be honest, did you ever use the injury report in your career to your advantage?

So as it relates to LSU Ole Miss, I think you have to take it at face value in this day and age, given the scrutiny of injuries and we know about, you know, the impact that gambling has.

So, you know, let's just see where we are.

Like today, it's doubtful, you know, that could change.

Look, there's a lot going on between these two schools.

That's no secret, Evan.

You know, we saw two, what, LSU players get served.

Michelle, we

Uh, to you, is that something that, outside of Josh Allen, is that something that can be developed? Have we seen it happen before where somebody so inaccurate has tightened that up throughout their career?

Yeah, that's a great point, Theo, and you talk to people around the league in evaluations.

And Josh Allen's an instructive sort of fact pattern because up until then, you know, he came out of Wyoming not an accurate passer.

Now, when you do the autopsy now, certainly you can look at some of his receivers, and all the credit in the world goes to Buffalo.

But, um, you know, there's been a lot of quarterbacks that you look at their accuracy and it doesn't change, you know, appreciably.

Now, look, you look at someone like Cam Ward, he was much more accurate at Miami.

Now, you hope the game slows down for him and he'll get better.

Like, which offense do you think gives defensive coordinators more, uh, nightmares? They also both are kind of the Ben Johnson tree with Ben Johnson and then Declan Doyle.

Off to a good start, but do you think Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson can pull it off?

Well, I have a couple thoughts.

First of all, I think Caleb Williams looks great, guys.

Like, it is clear to me he worked his tail off in the off season.

He looks stronger, and he looks faster.

Like, if you watch tape of him from last year and you look at that long touchdown run, uh, from yesterday, he looks better physically.

And, you know, I'm not saying he looks like Jalen Hurts yet, but boy, he looks a lot stronger, um, which really portends well.

How concerned should Rams fans be right now?

Lamar Jackson signs the biggest deal in NFL history after the season with the Ravens or with another team?

Oh, I think it's with the Ravens.

I think getting Declan Doyle was really smart.

I think he comes from this tree of Detroit and Chicago.

They'll protect him, and I'm excited to see, 'cause I think sometimes people conflate two things incorrectly, which is when you hear things like heavy up the protection or two backs or two tight ends, that they're gonna be conservative, and I think this is gonna make Lamar even more explosive.

If they could squeeze another year or two out of Derrick Henry, where defenses have to honor the run, that's just gonna open up the field for Lamar to be more explosive.

And I know he can't be franchised.

What would you tell those players?

How would you rank the quarterbacks in the NFC North?

Yeah, Mike, that's a great question.

Obviously, I would go with Jordan Love, then Jared Goff.

I really like Caleb Williams, and I think if you were just looking at the best plays each player makes, you could certainly say he's the best.

But the consistency needs to be there.

The completion percentage needs to improve, which I think it will.

And then I think Kyler Murray, to me, is one of the more intriguing players this year.

As you view this and everything that's gone into this decision, Who do you think ultimately made that call here?

If you were in that front office, would you have made that same decision?

No. He's played 19 games in six years.

He had shoulder surgery.

He tore his Achilles tendon twice.

He's been suspended 11 games.

Let's go with Shador.

It hasn't been perfect, but it never is with young quarterbacks.

Mm-hmm

Uh, but do you think this is something coming down from above, or do you think Todd Monken, his first head coaching job, has, uh, complete autonomy over this decision?

You know, I'm not sure, but I could tell you the process would go back to the hiring situation, which is talking about roster 53, who, who's on the roster, game day, you know, 48, which guys are dressing, and then, you know, obviously who's playing the game should always be up to the coach.

With that said, like, it has to be collaborative between the owner, the GM, and as you mentioned with his cap charge, it's probably prohibitive for him not to be on the roster.

But I would be surprised if any GM or owner said, "Hey, you gotta play player X or Y." That's, that's a heavy lift.

I mean, that's what you have your head coach there.

He's in front of the team every day.

He needs to hold the players accountable.

It seemed like the moment was too big for him.

Uh, but do you think this is something coming down from above, or do you think Todd Monken, his first head coaching job, has, uh, complete autonomy over this decision?

You know, I'm not sure, but I could tell you the process would go back to the hiring situation, which is talking about roster 53, who, who's on the roster game day, you know, 48, which guys are dressing and then, you know, obviously who's playing the game should always be up to the coach.

With that said, like, it has to be collaborative between the owner or the GM.

And as you mentioned, with his cap charge, it's probably prohibitive for him not to be on the roster.

But I would be surprised if any GM or owner said, "Hey, you gotta play player X or Y." That's, that's a heavy lift.

I mean, that's what you have your head coach there.

He's in front of the team every day.

It seemed like the moment was too big for him.

Uh, but do you think this is something coming down from above, or do you think Todd Monken, his first head coaching job, has, uh, complete autonomy over this decision?

You know, I'm not sure, but I could tell you the process would go back to the hiring situation, which is talking about roster, 53 who, who's on the roster, game day, you know, 48, which guys are dressing, and then, you know, obviously, who's playing the game should always be up to the coach.

With that said, like, it has to be collaborative between the owner or the GM.

And as you mentioned with his cap charge, it's probably prohibitive for him not to be on the roster.

But I would be surprised if any GM or owner said, "Hey, you gotta play player X or Y." That's, that's a heavy lift.

I mean, that's what you have your head coach there.

He's in front of the team every day.

It seemed like the moment was too big for him.

For them, could you see this John Harbaugh experiment, if you will, hit bumps in the road, or do you think it's going to be an immediate success?

I think it's probably more bumps in the road.

I like Scalaboo, but you just worry about him being sustainable from the way he runs.

Jackson Dart, I thought that was unfair what happened the other day.

That was a Tyrone Tracy.

He missed on the blitz pickup.

But I think Jackson Dart's got to show that he can stay healthy for 17 games, something he hasn't shown yet.

Where do you stand on this? Where did you stand on this in your executive career in front offices in the NFL? Are you always under the impression that guys are playing less than they should? Or are they playing more than they should when it comes to preseason?

I don't know what that is.

I, I researched this quite a bit.

So your toes are, uh, like a, a version of your fingers, and as you get older they get tighter and they curl up under your feet.

So there's...

You could put, like, separators between your toes.

S-P-L-A-Y.

You splay your toes, and it gives you more flexibility and better balance, and I'd recommend it for our audience.

So making sure that you stay hydrated, stay oiled up, that's the way to go.

If, in fact, they go through the preseason and Todd Munkin's looking to make a decision and it's close, it's almost like a coin flip between the two, who would you go with in that situation and why?

Yeah, guys, like this one, like I am bewildered.

Like what are we doing here? You gave Deshaun Watson $230 million fully guaranteed.

He's going to be a free agent.

He tore his Achilles out once but twice.

He's going to be a free agent after the season, and we don't know what we have in Shador.

What if Shador is a good player and you could go draft Jeremiah Smith next year if you're the Browns? So I think you cut your losses, you move on from Watson, and you call it.

When you look at some of the top guys from last year, Jackson Dart, Cam Ward, Tyler Shuck, which of these players do you think is walking into the best situation in 2026?

Uh, for him, if you're in the general manager seat now, and of course you have a new OC here, and you wanna be able to evaluate him properly, but you also wanna give him grace for dealing with something this big at this point in the season, how do you empower him to be able to move forward? Is it trying to find another replacement, um, or is it just more so giving him some grace knowing that he's dealing with a shorthand?

You know, Theo, like, when you talk to defensive coordinators and they play against Sean McVay, they talk a lot about how Sean can cover up for a less than ideal, perfect offensive line play, for example.

And look, that's what part of David Blough's job description is.

You gotta be a problem solver.

Jayden Daniels, you wanna be a franchise quarterback, you gotta cover up for less than ideal personnel.

Every team deals with this.

[audio glitches] It's not ideal, but if you're David Blough, maybe it's the quick game, maybe you move the pocket.

They've seen Dillon Gabriel in live snap football games, and clearly they're not fully comfortable to commit to either one of those guys yet.

Yeah

... players like Taylor Decker are out there, or maybe you trade for somebody like Walker Little, who's in Jacksonville, who's a backup now.

So you see what you have in Brandon Coleman.

First time play caller, uh, David Blough has his work cut out for him.

But when you talk to opposing defensive coordinators in the league and they say, "What makes Sean McVay so good?" Sean McVay's one of those guys that could cover up for subpar play on the offensive line.

So if I'm David Blough, one of the things I'm thinking about is I have the athleticism of Jayden Daniels, what do I have, what can we do well, and just try to work around it.

Oh

... don't coach the Dallas Cowboys.

Give me the deal that you like, the love, and the deal that you hate.

Well, I would say this.

I can make the argument they're underpaid.

Jameer Gibbs and Bijan Robinson are guys in their primes.

Jameer Gibbs has scored 49 touchdowns in three years.

Guys, would you rather have Jameer Gibbs at $22.5 million or the top receiver at $40 million? Jameer Gibbs is unbelievable.

He's awesome.

That's just me.

Give me the deal that you like, the love, and the deal that you hate.

Well, I would say this.

I can make the argument they're underpaid.

Jameer Gibbs and Bijan Robinson are guys in their primes.

Jameer Gibbs has scored 49 touchdowns in three years.

Guys, would you rather have Jameer Gibbs at $22.5 million or the top receiver at $40 million? Jameer Gibbs is unbelievable.

He's awesome.

That's just me.

of

it all.

Okay.

I have a good answer here.

Baker Mayfield is easily aggrieved.

He's easily grieved.

He is a good player.

And the Rams are not going to give him the money.

by the

Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Guys, that's one-eighth of the NFL.

If I was representing Baker Mayfield, what I would tell him is...

Be quiet.

Just be grateful and go play.

Because when you graduate from Tampa Bay at the end of this year, how many teams are left on this planet that are going to pay you $50 million or more that need a quarterback that aren't going to draft one? So there's one-eighth of the league that you can't play for anymore because you burnt a bridge.

And the Rams are not going to give him the money.

Is this a storyline for you, the storyline for you? Or is there something else, Mike?

Yeah, I would start...

We could go to Kansas City.

For them to have a chance this year, Travis Kelce has to turn back the clock, Pat.

Because when you look outside, Rashee Rice, obviously we know he's in with an injury and incarceration, and Xavier Worthy hasn't worked out.

They don't have the firepower they once had, so this is gonna look more like Travis Kelce.

And look, they're gonna run the ball with Kenneth Walker.

[laughs]

So, Mike, was there ever a time that you did one of those and you were really high on the player, but the way they answered or the way you kind of analyzed it, that you took them off your board?

100%, before they left the room.

A couple times with quarterbacks, we would show their interceptions, and basically we would ask them to take us through the play, like what happened.

And if the quarterback would blame others, like, oh, that was a really bad play call, or – the receiver ran the wrong route, invariably we would either take him off our board or knock him down.

And the reason for it, guys, is if you're going to pay somebody millions and millions of dollars to be, as Coach Parcells would say, your battlefield commander, you want somebody that's always taking the blame and always giving the credit.

So it was a big indice of a quarterback's ability to be selfless when they would describe bad plays to us.

We have bigger fish to fry, even with that tough loss in this long offseason that Packer fans are dealing with and dealing with Bear fans?

Yeah, guys, for me, it's definitely more of the latter.

We have bigger fish to fry, even with that tough loss in this long offseason that Packer fans are dealing with and dealing with Bear fans?

Yeah, guys, for me, it's definitely more of the latter.

We're a really good organization.

We've been really competitive for a long time.

We're not perfect, but we make a lot more good decisions than bad decisions.

And yeah, we lost a tough one last year, but we know who we are.

And it's not about handshakes or anything like that.

When do you as an executive look at it and say, I can't count on him anymore? Is it after year two, year three? When you see that talent, but you have to keep those roster spots, how would you approach a player that's going into his third year who has not been able to stay healthy but has immense talent you know can help your football