Is the evil access, I guess, between Russia and North Korea and China and Iran, they're trying to stir things up, raise the price of oil, which causes the Fed to raise the price of interest rates to try to affect the election of November 3rd.

I am confident that the leadership in China, Russia and Iran are all deeply aware that it causes trouble when there's conflict between the United States and their nations.

And so, yeah, I think they're trying to make it very clear that they still have some leverage.

And it won't surprise me at all, John, if the Iranians stir up even more trouble in the next three, four or five weeks in an effort not only to gain leverage, but to make clear to the American people that this unpopular war is only getting worse when in fact, um, it will show what is what I think it will really show is that they are about out of options.

They have played their, uh, singular card in the street of Hormuz.

Uh, they are about out of schlitz and I'm confident president Trump is going to find a way to not only reopen the straight and reduce energy prices over some period of time.

but push back against a regime that is trying to undermine the most basic ideas here in the United States of America.

You know it firsthand.

Is the evil access, I guess, between Russia and North Korea and China and Iran, they're trying to stir things up, raise the price of oil, which causes the Fed to raise the price of interest rates to try to affect the election of November 3rd.

I am confident that the leadership in China, Russia and Iran are all deeply aware that it causes trouble when there's conflict between the United States and their nations.

And so, yeah, I think they're trying to make it very clear that they still have some leverage.

And it won't surprise me at all, John, if the Iranians stir up even more trouble in the next three, four or five weeks in an effort not only to gain leverage, but to make clear to the American people that this unpopular war is only getting worse when in fact it will show what is what I think it will really show is that they are about out of options.

They have played their singular card in the Strait of Hormuz.

They are about out of schlitz.

And I'm confident President Trump is going to find a way to not only reopen the Strait and reduce energy prices over some period of time.

You know it firsthand.

Is the evil access, I guess, between Russia and North Korea and China and Iran, they're trying to stir things up, raise the price of oil, which causes the Fed to raise the price of interest rates to try to affect the election of November 3rd.

I am confident that the leadership in China, Russia and Iran are all deeply aware that it causes trouble when there's conflict between the United States and their nations.

And so, yeah, I think they're trying to make it very clear that they still have some leverage.

And it won't surprise me at all, John, if the Iranians stir up even more trouble in the next three, four or five weeks in an effort not only to gain leverage, but to make clear to the American people that this unpopular war is only getting worse when, in fact, it will show what is what I think it will really show is that they are about out of options.

They have played their singular card in the Strait of Hormuz.

They are about out of schlitz.

And I'm confident President Trump is going to find a way to not only reopen the Strait and reduce energy prices over some period of time, but push back against the regime that is trying to undermine the most basic ideas here in the United States of America.

You know it firsthand.

I- is, is the evil axis, uh, I guess between Russia and North Korea and, uh, uh, China and, uh, Iran, uh, they're trying to stir things up, raise the price of oil, raise the, uh, which causes, uh, the Fed to raise the price of interest rates, uh, to try to affect the election of, uh, Nove- November 3rd?

Uh, I am confident that the, uh, leadership in, in China, Russia and Iran are all deeply aware, uh, that, uh, it causes trouble when, uh, when there's conflict between the United States and their nations.

Uh, and so yeah, I, I think they're trying to make it very clear that they still have some leverage, and it won't surprise me at all, John, if the Iranians stir up even more trouble in the next three, four, five weeks in an effort not only to gain leverage but to, uh, make clear to the American people that, uh, this se-... unpopular wars only getting worse, when in fact, um, it will show ex- what is, what I think it will really show is that they, they are about out of options.

They have played their, uh, singular card in the Strait of Hormuz.

Uh, they are about out of schlitz, and I'm confident President Trump is going to find a way to not only reopen the strait and reduce energy prices over some period of time, um, but push back against the regime that is trying to undermine the most basic ideas here in the United States of America.

I, I don't think their efforts are gonna lead to victory.

Uh, I'm sure they have a different judgment on that.

You know it firsthand.

How can the West pass these tests? And do you think that the, even these countries will be unified in their response?

Well, look, uh, Europe historically has, has had trouble becoming unified around these things because there are frontline states, states like the Baltic nations and, and Poland, and then there's nations that are, don't face the crisis as immediately.

We certainly saw that, uh, in World War II, right? Where the frontline nations fought and the others just hoped like heck that, uh, bad guys would leave them alone.

Um, but what I think Europe has learned in the intervening period is that they, they've got to do this together, and so we, we can absolutely pass this test.

You, you pass this test by when there's an incursion like this, you impose real costs.

You make clear you, you, A, you saw it, B, you know it was them, and then C, and here's the cost that we're gonna impose in response to that.

Look, you fly a drone inside the border, nobody's injured.

I think you've been pretty clear on your stance, but do you think that the IRGC now is, is looking towards what happens after a midterm election? You know, congressional control could be more flexible, uh, with them maintaining power.

Secretary, you heard the question.

I did hear the question, yes.

Look, I think you've got it just right.

We are going to win, and I think President Trump has perfectly captured how to get there, right? Today, crude oil is flowing out, but not Iranian crude oil.

Everybody else is.

So we can keep energy prices relatively low and strangle the Iranian economy so they can't pay their soldiers, can't buy more munitions, all the things that put real pressure on the IRGC and the leadership in the regime.

And I think you see that with them acting out in this way, right? They have to, every whipstitch, go take on a couple of tankers to show themselves that they still can and to try to convince the world that they are still capable of holding the Strait of Hormuz hostage.

With all of this taking place at this time and knowing that the president is coming from China to visit the White House, how much of this, of Iran, do you think is on the agenda for the White House with the Chinese as they come over here?

So I would ask you this, given that's their mentality, and it certainly is played out, I think, right now on the battlefield, what is the likelihood of them surrendering, as I asked Peter Schweitzer, the prior guest?

Well, Mark, it's great to be with you, and I, I hope I give the same answer Peter did, which is precisely zero is the likelihood of them actually surrendering without getting to what President Trump talked about at the beginning of the conflict, which is, uh, capitulation of the Iranian regime and defeat.

Uh, we have to win this.

And, and your, your...

the video that you showed is important because it shows this Islamist ideology, right? This the- theocratic vision for global dominance, uh, that the Iranian regime holds today and others across the globe in the Muslim Brotherhood network hold today, is something we're gonna have to continue to defeat.

And so when I hear people talk about this having been President Trump's war of choice, or saying somehow that, "Gosh, if we could just get an MOU that had enough detail around it," uh, tho- those are foolish statements.

Uh, had, had we done this 10 or 15 years ago, this would've been much easier than today, and had we waited another 15 months, this might have been a nuclear-armed Iran, and it would've been even more difficult.

Is-- There must be a decision just not to do it, or we don't know about it.

What's your initial reaction to the fact that the FBI, at the same time you were secretary of state, was concerned that you were, uh, which is laughable, a conduit for Russian propaganda?

You know, my, my first reaction was just, I'm stunned, right? Just out, out of nowhere.

Had no idea, had never heard of Round River.

Uh, I, I was unaware that there was any counterintelligence investigation taking place inside the FBI at that point in time at the tail end of the administration.

Um, and so when I saw my name, and, and frankly the list of the other names too, they're just...

That you, your point, it is laughable.

Uh, boy, it is, it is so troubling to see that the FBI was doing this, uh, during President Trump's time after we'd had, you know, we'd been fought through four years of the Russia hoax, uh, in every newspaper in America.

But, uh, h- one, just in your opinion, have we made progress against what we call the deep state in pushing back against this kind of politicization, uh, or is it a lost cause?

A- And I feel like, a- and you've, you've tweeted about this, uh, uh, that this is really a showdown between what the insurgent wing of the Democrat Party i- is putting forward and what I- I feel like to some degree, uh, former Congressman Rogers represents, which is more traditional Western values, and I wanted to get your take on that.

Well, it is every bit that big.

Uh, this is, this is not just a Senate race, uh, and we're seeing this all across the country.

This is not just a fight between center-left, center-right, whether taxes should be 29 or 30.2.

This is a radical, uh, pro-Islamist group of people who view America as the problem.

They view Western civilization as indecent.

They think American history reflects...

Uh, one, I think, is this a new development, or is some reporters just starting to get wise to it because they don't have other headlines, or is this something that is creeping that could, uh, continually expand the conflicts as we see them?

That was back, there was a bit of a storm i- in May, but you said, "Look, it's not re- re- remotely America first." When you see the actions taken now, do you think it's closer to America first? Because I look at $300 billion being offered, I look at sanctions being lifted, I look at the roadmap to all sanctions being lifted, and I think this is not very, this doesn't chime very well with Secretary Pompeo's view.

Well, look, what you're seeing today is you've got a complete blockade of the Iranian regime, right? So the, the Iranian money has been turned off.

I hope we're gonna go after the banks that are continuing to underwrite it.

I hope we'll go after Russians that are continuing to buy their crude oil.

The Chinese Communist Party continues to try to evade these sanctions, moving product not through the Strait, but through other mechanisms.

Uh, that economic, uh, power that we have is having a real impact inside of Iran.

Make no mistake about it.

Yes.

A- as we're here, i- it's not surprising that we are back where we are, but I think just a reiterating of why i- i- i- it is so important to be fighting this regime at this time, uh, as things seem to be escalating as they did over the weekend.

No, you make a really good point.

You know, the storyline from the left has been that this was a war of choice, and frankly, some on the right too, uh, that this was a war of choice.

What you can plainly see now is that this war was chosen by the Islamic Republic in 1979, and they have been at war with the United States since then.

Uh, these, the tragic loss of lives over these past few days, uh, add to them the, the dozen folks or so that were, uh, killed in the previous fights, uh, are on top of thousands of Americans that have been killed by the Iranians over the past decades.

And so this is something that the United States is gonna have to make sure we get right.

Uh, I've talked about this as finish the job.

Uh, what, what are some sorts of the scenarios that you could envision playing out i- in these next few months as finishing the job appears to be what needs to happen from the United States?

But i- it's the institutional knowledge that he had and his willingness to work with, whether it be young congressmen or, or, or young senators in the process of government.

government.You know, it's so easy to tear down these institutions, to talk bad about Congress or talk bad about the Senate.

You know, Senator Graham never did that.

He would joke about it, but he understood that these institutions mattered, that our founders-- but he took deeply that idea that our founders had it right, and he so loved being a part of it.

He wasn't, you know, s- s- [chuckles] Lindsey could find a camera for sure, um, but it wasn't all about Lindsey.

It was always about the things he cared about and the things he truly believed mattered to America.

He and I, frankly, on Iran, we were, we were brothers in arms.

I think that's something that we also will miss in, in a world that's, that's turning away, even within the party sometimes, of a lot of the, the concepts of s- peace through strength a- and that Reagan-esque style that, that Senator Graham had.

... uh, our troops at the ready, and, and continuing to limit their capacity to even rebuild, or do you think it's something broader or more different now that these, these talks have failed?

Oh, goodness.

You know, um, uh, diplomacy never goes away, um, i- in the sense of, uh, in the end, someone will sit down and there'll, there'll be some outcome, um, that is determinative.

Uh, but it... we're clearly not at the point where this regime...

And, and I don't think any- anybody believes now that anybody who has any power inside of Iran doesn't wanna continue to destroy Israel and the United States of America, right? Could be folks are telling us they, they, they wanna turn over a new leaf, but those people have no capacity to deliver that.

And so I think it is a very likely outcome that the President will restore the economic pressure that we had in place, costing them somewhere on the order of $500 or $600 million a day, um, that he will continue to respond when they strike at targets.

He will continue to use military power to impose costs on them, and then we will get the strait reopened.

But, uh, w- with all this, i- i- is the press just trying to make a story out of something with the plane change a- and the schedule change, et cetera, or do you think that Iran maybe saw a window and there's some sort of credible threat that they were, uh, looking to avoid, obviously?

Sure

... a politically weaker position, an economically weaker position.

Good stuff.

Second, um, w- we, we, we should see if they've turned over a new leaf.

Look, we've-- I've been on your show a handful of times talking about this.

I don't see it.

The regime seems to me to be implacable, unchangeable, theocratic thugs.

Do you feel like that is something we need to at least keep ourselves aware of and, you know, keep it in check?

But now if the US military, one, were to take control of what would effectively, uh, shut down their economy, how would that play out? A- and what are the risk-reward scenarios kind of, uh, for our audience to look at?

Uh, you bet.

Look, w- w- you, you can never predict in war precisely how things will turn out.

But we have a confused, fractured, broken Iranian regime.

I, I talk about them, we all do, as if there's a singular enterprise.

I doubt that that's truly the case today.

I think there are competing factions.

Do you think even the way this plays out, there is still a hope? Obviously, we can't predict the future, but there is a hope that the Iranian people could find a path forward without, uh, the mullahs in charge?

This is what human decency demands.

You don't let a radical regime close off the global economy by firing Shahid missiles into nations that did nothing, right? They're firing into civilians in the United Arab Emirates even just this week.

Um, that's just not something that the world can accept, and so this monster is worthy of a hunt.

Mike Pompeo, you're up with six minutes for your opening statement.

Great.

Thank you, Richard.

Uh, and thank you, uh, uh, for hosting us here.

Uh, and I appreciate you all being here tonight.

[laughs]

Um, this is, uh, thi- this is deep and troubling.

We've had, uh, congressmen have, uh, an agent get very close to him.

We've had someone in the governor's office in New York at a pretty senior level shape New York state policy who was clearly working for the Chinese government.

Those are the things that have become public.

I've seen so much more, and the scale of the activity is staggering.

I, I, I don't know if I told the story in Ottawa, uh, of what they were doing in the Houston consulate in Texas, right? The spy operation there was probably the largest espionage operation that the United States has ever taken down.

Yeah.

What, what's your take on how, uh, direct that Xi Jinping was about the issue of Taiwan, uh, as well as give kind of an overview for our, our audience of why it is actually an important issue for the United States?

Oh, you bet.

So look, let's take the second one first.

Uh, Taiwan is important for multiple reasons.

One, um, it's a sovereign independent nation.

The United States protects its sovereignty.

President Trump made that a central part of his campaign, right? Stopping immigration, illegal immigration across our southern border because we're, in fact, a sovereign country.

Uh, what, what is your, your kind of take on this, uh, what we've seen from the, uh, New York Times, but also how we can, uh, push back on this i- in this very important piece you wrote about progressives appeasing the entire antisemitic, uh, league that is going on at this time?

uh it reads kind of like we're talking out of two sides of our mouths here at the same time but where do you feel like we stand right now uh one of our callers called in and asked that said do we feel like combat begins soon what do you think as they are reviewing again whoever r is the latest uh potential peace deal

Perfectly, with great precision.

Look, there's a great deal of uncertainty.

I don't think the public knows.

I think there's lots of conversations going on.

But if you made me assess, just given what I'm observing, we still have enormous leverage.

That is, we have economic coercion in place and we have military dominance.

bring up a good point and you know it's a little off topic here but as someone who's been associated with this and obviously has a deep military background when there is a ceasefire when they are these moments it is easy for us to just go okay war over go home what is it like for these servicemen that are there when is it almost feel like there's more uncertainty with that because they're just on hold what like not to put yourself in their shoes but just in a way what does that look like from a military standpoint

When they do this, I'm having a hard time figuring out if they really do think this is that serious or if they are so comfortable in D.C. playing politics, they don't think it's very serious at all.

Yeah, sadly, I think it's the latter.

I think they're making this very political.

They are trying to win an election, a midterm elections by talking about high gas prices and what a calamity this is.

When, in fact, this was created by President Obama and Secretary Kerry, who set up the conditions to allow Iran to have a clear pathway to a nuclear weapon.

And some president was going to have to do this.

And President Trump boldly decided this was the moment that will only get harder from here and took it on.

But should we be taking it seriously as this war progresses?

What does it say about our allies who aren't as involved? And why is Pakistan actually so significant on this global stage? Again, when this becomes topics of hearing, Pakistan and Iran, it gets kind of blurry for the American people.

Yeah, I get that.

And your point's very well taken.

It has become quiet given the number of soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines, the huge forces that we've now placed and are continuing to add to throughout the Middle East.

And I get why people are like, what the heck's going on? So I think a reset is useful.

Over the course of the last weeks, the United States and Israel have destroyed massive pieces of the Iranian infrastructure, military infrastructure, taken down good pieces of their Navy, their nuclear capability, just a broad range of their capacity to do what they've said they were going to do for decades, destroy the nation of Israel and death to America.

Now the president has made clear that no oil shall flow from an Iranian port or into an Iranian port shall any goods be transited.

Why is it important for our listeners to understand that this strategy is good to sort of reorder the world's economy in terms of their working with, when you kind of think of Iran and China and these countries as sometimes having similar, not similar ways of communication, but certainly similar values, if you will.

Over the last few days, has anything changed from your point of view in, I guess, how we go out and negotiate with a current Iranian government?

Yes, this is a tough problem.

I don't think my view has changed terribly.

What will be most interesting, I think, is to see who shows up for the other side.

which leader raises his head and says yes i'm i'm the leader i run this country i can deliver uh the on the promises that i'm about to make to you uh i can i can actually do a deal that will be uh step one for vice president vance and mr kushner with mr wickoff to figure out like do we have a legitimate representative of all of iran sitting across the table from us And then second, and I think they would all know that, and I know President Trump knows it too, this is not about trust.

This is about verifying, about watching, observing what's actually happening on the ground.

You talked about the ceasefire.

So even there... their negotiating tactics have not changed even if the people have they have not changed and i think it goes back to your question of verifying not just verifying a deal if one were to come out but verifying they can even make a deal and if they make a deal other opportunistic irgc members don't all of a sudden stage an internal coup and take them out because they want power i think i The caution is different, but is still very much real of can this happen?

I just want to get your general initial thoughts.

Well, a couple takeaways.

One, President Trump was very clear.

We've done amazing work so far.

Our military has done remarkable work.

We have decimated the regime's military capabilities, its Navy, its Air Force, its missile launcher systems, all the drone capabilities.

We've decimated them.

What is that tell you as well that one not a i told you so moment but the fact that they were almost at a point where they would almost have an immunity shield because then the argument would always be you can't go bomb the iranian nuclear sites because then they'll hit london then they'll hit our bases in germany then it will be not just a regional conflict, but a massive, almost World War-style conflict with Europe being bombarded by intermediate missiles.

Do you think our security services and the apparatus here in the United States is being vigilant and working as needed at a time like this?

I don't have any doubt that they are fully on point.

Indeed, I am sure that before President Trump launched the attack into Iran alongside our Israeli partners, that the local law enforcement and the federal officials were working very hard to identify those that they suspected and is keeping an eye on them.

So I don't think there's any doubt that there is a bunch of effort.

It could well be that they have taken down plots that we're not even aware of that didn't become public.

So, yes, I think they're taking it with a level of seriousness required.

But your point is very well taken.

When you have President Trump making these statements, what are your thoughts, as someone who's kind of been involved in working with this type of regime before, when it comes to what you consider quote-unquote, you know, good conversations?

The president says, "I'm not ready to escort ships." When do you think he would be ready, and what are the circumstances for that to happen?

Brian, I, I think they're preparing the conditions.

In the same way that it took several weeks to get all these, uh, assets in the region to keep, uh, our soldiers, sailors, airmen, uh, safe, uh, for the attack, they've gotta do the same for the strait.

So there's gonna take real preparation.

Uh, timelines are what everybody wants to know which day they're gonna do this.

That's impossible to know.

Um, it's a conditions-based effort.

What do you hear about what's happening on the ground, Mr. Secretary?