You, you have a very different system, I would suspect, than if you try to live by them most of the time.

And so I, I think your...

the, the connection with Lord Moulton is right.

If you-- people may or may not remember, I suggest that if they listen to that podcast, after they finish listening to this one, of course.

Um, the thing about... that Lord Moulton said is that there are a bunch of things that are wrong that are not illegal, and we have to do that because people have to be capable of self-control.

And Patrick Deneen, in his book, a professor at Notre Dame, in his 2018, uh, Princeton University Press book, The Failure of Liberalism, said that he thinks liberalism is failing because it has come to the view that anything that is not illegal is moral.

Now, I think he's mistaken about that as a matter of definition, but I think I am uncomfortably close to agreeing with him that there is that potential, because it is possible to say, "Well, since it's not illegal, you're allowed to do it," but you still shouldn't do it.

And the choices we make to what we put under public policy's purview is, is, is then crucial and, and recog- it recognizes that because the groups don't always work as well as we might like, doesn't mean we should do everything in a group, and we certainly shouldn't do everything alone.