In practical terms, I mean, how does that impact on our food security? How does it impact on potato growers?

Well, I think you have to see this in the context of the bigger picture.

I mean, what it means in the short term for potato, for us as consumers, I suppose, is obviously a much lower quality product, much smaller product and probably price increases because those increased costs of irrigation.

If you think about a massive field where a grower has to go over that crop maybe multiple times, that's hugely expensive work.

So that's the impact.

The growers I've spoken to don't believe we're going to see shortages in in the rooster potatoes in particular.

But I think the bigger picture, I suppose, which I'm always kind of trying to focus people on is that overall, the number of growers we have is down from around 600, you know, back in the late 1990s down to about 60 now.

But doesn't Ireland import the vast majority of what it eats? I mean, we export dairy products, we export beef, but don't we pretty much import everything else?

Talk to me, though, about what specific issues Are we bringing in from overseas that we really should be growing right here at home?

Yeah, well, you mentioned potatoes in your intro, which is obviously, I think, is always the one that really gets people.

And that's very recently, actually, up until maybe two, three years ago, potatoes were largely immune from imports because, you know, we've got... separate to the 60 commercial veg growers we have we have around 150 commercial potato farmers so we've always been more or less self-sufficient but actually changing tastes have sort of changed the landscape here we're very big into Maris Pipers you know mainly because of I think celebrity chefs kind of bigging them up and mentioning them and we don't grow them so well here so we're importing a lot of Maris Pipers and depending on the supermarket you go into you know, you will see varying degrees of it, but some supermarkets, you know, you could have 30, 40% of the potatoes they're selling are imported from the UK.

So like, yeah, like pretty much the ones, the imports that really bother me in terms of fruit and veg are the ones that we can't grow ourselves because obviously, you know, we can't grow bananas and we can't grow avocados and all of that kind of stuff.

But we can grow pretty much everything else.

We have a very good climate for veg production, actually, and fruit.

So we can grow onions, carrots, parsnips, kale, cabbages, broccoli, tomatoes, courgettes, pretty much everything you can think of.

Talk to me, Mick, how those practical measures, would they be enough to encourage new entrants into small scale farming?

Mick Kelly, founder of GIY, I'm guessing this didn't come as news to you.

It didn't, Shane.

I suppose the extent of it probably is a bit of a shock because I, like about six months ago, I did a thing about this on on Instagram and just a particular jar I'd come across in one of the discount retailers, shall we say.

And what struck me was actually how cheap it was because it was, you know, a jar of Irish honey could be 8 to 10 euro and this was like 2 euro 90.

So I kind of thought that was a bit suspicious.

And when I went, you know, looked at the back of the label at that stage, the legislation hadn't come to pass.

And it said a blend of EU and non-EU honey.

Yeah,

be mandatory? I mean, that would be an issue for you?

I think as Paul said, it probably was a smart way to go to make it voluntary to bring people in, but I think in time it probably does need to be mandatory and other stakeholders like the the aggregators and wholesalers being brought in.

I think my main feeling about this is though that fundamentally it's about making sort of the existing system more viable, which is welcome.

I just think the mood music around climate change and climate chaos around Europe particularly this summer, I think has almost kind of leapt over this.

You know, it just feels too small and not ambitious enough, given what's going on.

And I think it's kind of worth reminding ourselves that, you know, you said there, I think the Farmgate value you mentioned around 600 million for horticulture.

When you compare that with, you know, we, 90% of the food we produce on the island gets exported to the tune of, you know, nearly 20 billion euros.

so mick you're given the reins you're given control what do you do how do you uh incentivize young farmers to get into horticulture

Yeah.

Like, enjoyed it.

Um, and then I guess from there, I mean, the whole reason it like stemmed it all after that was I think it would've been 2017, 2018.

It, this is, it's ridiculous, but I was watching a video on YouTube, and I don't know if I've mentioned this to you, but this is all where it stemmed from.

I was watching a video on YouTube and it was like 75 plus-year-olds finishing an Ironman, and it was a compilation video-

... and you've got that out of the way or...?

Yeah, I think for me, I, now, I just, I never really enjoyed cycling at all.

So I think Ironman, you're like, I ticked it off, and I kinda knew that was, like, training because, say you train 10 to 15 hours a week for Ironman, right? It's, if you put that just into running and, like, training in the gym, you'd be a weapon.

And initially, I suppose, was it just out of interest at home or did you look to a wider community straight away?

Initially, it was just a home.

So like I literally I remember thinking to myself, like, why has this little bulb of garlic come from the other side of the world? And I kind of had a vague idea that garlic would, you know, could be grown in this part of the world.

And so, you know, when I when I looked into it, you know, this was about trade and the reason that the garlic was from China, because it's cheaper to import than it is to grow.

And I kind of I felt it was an inferior product, even even thinking about it now.

Back then, like I just I kind of had this thing couldn't be fresh and couldn't be as nutrient dense and couldn't be as as flavorsome.

I started growing and actually just got bitten by the bug of it and really As I got into it, the more I realized what I didn't know and how much I had to learn.

Generally, in terms of our response to climate change, like we've been getting a lot wrong, but what would you like to see more of in our response to climate change, maybe in Ireland or as a society?

But the hosepipe ban is kind of proven as a way of dramatically reducing water consumption, isn't it?

Yeah, it is.

And, you know, there is, I suppose, I think it's important to sort of distinguish between different water uses, some of which can be kind of, you know, like the idea that you would be watering a lawn during a drought to me is absolutely bonkers because like a lawn will recover when the rain comes, which it will come eventually, the lawn will come back.

So the idea that you'd be precious about having a really green lawn beautiful lawn at this time of the year, I think, you know, is bonkers.

Whereas to me, to be honest, Tom, I think there's an argument in favour of fruit and vegetables being exempt from a hosepipe ban, given that, you know, it's such an environmentally friendly kind of thing to do to produce your own food in your own garden.

But at the same time, I do think there are lots of tips and tricks to kind of conserve water and i and i do feel like we've actually our head of education in gy mary is from australia and so she's kind of laughing at us this week sort of saying what's the big deal we've been we've been dealing with this kind of stuff for for decades you know so i think there's loads of tips we can use to make sure that we save the water and and actually when you implement those kind of different tricks which i can talk about in a second if you want yeah You do sort of start to realise how much water you actually waste in the house and garden.

So I think it's important for us to consider it as the precious resource that it is.

Tell me more about that.

But the hosepipe ban is kind of proven as a way of dramatically reducing water consumption, isn't it?

Yeah, it is.

And, you know, there is, I suppose, I think it's important to sort of distinguish between different water uses, some of which can be kind of, you know, like the idea that you would be watering a lawn during a drought to me is absolutely bonkers because like a lawn will recover when the rain comes, which it will come eventually, the lawn will come back.

So the idea that you'd be precious about having a really green lawn beautiful lawn at this time of the year, I think, you know, is bonkers.

Whereas to me, to be honest, Tom, I think there's an argument in favour of fruit and vegetables being exempt from a hosepipe ban, given that, you know, it's such an environmentally friendly kind of thing to do to produce your own food in your own garden.

But at the same time, I do think there are lots of tips and tricks to kind of conserve water and i and i do feel like we've actually our head of education in gy mary is from australia and so she's kind of laughing at us this week sort of saying what's the big deal we've been we've been dealing with this kind of stuff for for decades you know so i think there's loads of tips we can use to make sure that we save the water and and actually when you implement those kind of different tricks which i can talk about in a second if you want yeah You do sort of start to realise how much water you actually waste in the house and garden.

So I think it's important for us to consider it as the precious resource that it is.

Tell me more about that.

Mick, what are you looking for here?

Um, yeah, well, b- basically, I, I, I think the problem we're trying to ad- address, Shane, as you alluded to in the intro, you know, we've, we've a massive transition underway, unfortunately, in our kind of, in our diets in Ireland.

Um, up to 46% now of the national diet, the national shopping basket, is ultra-processed foods.

And for our children and young people, we, while we don't have direct research on this yet, in the UK, it's around 66% of the diet for teenagers, uh, for adolescent children.

So it's, it's a really serious problem that we're sort of starting to see the impact of that on, on the health of children and young people.

And obviously, you know, they're exposed to massive, massive pressure in terms of advertising and social media.

My own children are teenagers.

... we boiled them there.

Where are they, Michael, when they're not out? Where do they

live? So, yeah, so they're nocturnal.

So like they only come out at nighttime and they sleep during the day and they're hiding out in all sorts of places.

They can be in the soil itself.

So sometimes, you know, even if you've got, say, a gravel path around a raised bed, for example, which would be kind of, in theory, a very good way to keep them out because they wouldn't like traveling across the gravel.

But you could still have some of them in the soil, in the raised bed.

And they love hiding out under stones and under bits of timber and stuff like that.

Now, and so in terms of a physical barrier, is there anything really that that 100 percent works?

Where are they, Michael, when they're not out? Where do

they live? So, yeah, so they're nocturnal.

So like they only come out at nighttime and they sleep during the day.

And they're hiding out in all sorts of places.

They can be in the soil itself.

So sometimes, you know, even if you've got, say, a gravel path around a raised bed, for example, which would be kind of, in theory, a very good way to keep them out because they wouldn't like traveling across the gravel.

but you could still have some of them in the soil, in the raised bed.

Now, and so in terms of a physical barrier, is there anything really that that 100 percent works?

Well, we'd have to check that out with them if that's the case, but...

Yeah, like I would imagine what's happened is they've taken away the signage, but the products are still there in the same location, which is right beside the cell.

and like you know circle k are an interesting organization big huge canadian company they've got you know massive penetration in ireland including you know on our motorway network so we've given them national toll roads have given them licenses to operate on our national motorway and roads network and my mind those licenses should come with a responsibility To provide, you know, healthy food as well as that at the moment.

They do have some, don't they? I'm trying to, yeah, I'm trying, do they not? They really don't.

Like, I'll tell you exactly what they have, right, because I've been talking about this a huge amount.

They have, right, wall-to-wall ultra processed foods.

And then they've got like this health, what they call their healthy snacking section.

Parents can say no.