Okay, and am I right in thinking that before Detective Colm Horkin's death, another guard had self-injured with a gun using the same holster?

Precisely.

It was just six days before that.

It was a detective guard, Eddie Connell, outside the residence for the Israeli ambassador in Dublin.

His weapon discharged and shot him in the groin.

It was a serious injury.

He recovered.

What are guards saying about this? Do they feel that it is an organisation where it is safe to make a protected disclosure? Or indeed, how do they view such things?

So

tell me about the Cliffords in Kerry.

What kind of a place did you come from? I came from a place, there's a long, going back a long way in South Kerry.

South Kerry, it's a particular area, Kerry, Pat, I think that probably doesn't get a good airing, so to speak.

You know, people talk about Dingle in the West, but the South Kerry has its own vibe going on there.

And what distinguishes it as much as anything is if you look back in terms of Gaelic football, the best player of each generation has come from there.

You're talking about Jack O'Shea, you're talking about Mick O'Connell, Mick Dwyer.

Are you linking the two? Well...

Is it?

I don't believe her second edition, but apart from that, what you have here is a rational debate between Patricia and Joe on either side, and they're both putting forward technical arguments, and that's all very well, and that's the debate, as it should be, and there's no problem with that.

What you have in the doll today, and I was following a lot of it, is little short of hysterical.

You have phrases like that what's involved here is a betrayal of the Irish people.

You have somebody else saying that if you go ahead with this, you put the nail in the coffin of Irish neutrality.

You have people saying that if you remove this triple lock, you're sending our sons and daughters off to foreign wars.

All of that stuff is absolutely for the birds.

That is why it's so important that we hold on to these safeguards, and that's what the Triple Lock represents.

Remy Farrell, Senior Counsel

This is a small rural community where the Gardai canvassed door to door just trying to establish essential facts and build up a picture.

And you might well imagine that people were keen to cooperate because, you know, a young woman from the locality had gone missing.

What occurs thereafter, particularly when those accounts that they got didn't match up with their theory of the case, some of those witnesses were essentially, I mean, all but arrested.

They were brought to the Gardai station to, quote, assist with inquiries, unquote, and were essentially forced to recant and come up with different version of events.

It is, I think, fairly clear with the benefit of hindsight that the Gardai were dealing with a community that was largely deferential and frankly in fear of them.

And they had the power and wherewithal to put that extraordinary pressure on witnesses.

Certain members of the Murder Squad, who became known as the Heavy Gang, were assigned to the investigation, and the three suspects were brought in for questioning and held for 45 hours.

And again, I suppose the reason, again, was it a little bit about belonging in a community?

Absolutely, absolutely.

And, you know, and particularly the way, and again, I suppose, come back to South Kerry, the way that it's part, it's ingrained into the whole community there.

And when I'm talking about an area like that, I'm talking about an area where, for example, You have a succession of people who would have been regarded as the greatest player of their generation.

You're talking about Mick O'Connell and Mick O'Dwyer, who's more known for management.

Move on to Jack O'Shea.

Move on to Maurice Fitzgerald.

it still producing the footballers? Does it still have the competitive teams?

It's also what I mean, I suppose, Kerry Donegal, very established and unmoving tradition and identity, isn't it? Yes, that would definitely be

true.

The difference with Donegal that I found up there, the likes of Gaelic football, no, they hadn't won in all Ireland when we moved there in the late 70s.

Soccer was more established and it took a while for Gaelic football to get established.

Notwithstanding that, it was in Donegal I came closest to an all-Ireland team.

Because one day in school, I was playing for the school and I'd forgotten my boots.

And a lad in the year ahead of me, Joyce McMullen, happened to be standing by and Joyce said to me, look, I've my boots here.

That was the only way they

Very

dangerously stored, absolutely.

I mean, and he was somebody, you know what he was talking about, he had previously served in the Defence Force, so he was well across everything and he was quite shocked.

according to the program last night, by what he discovered when he was deployed to the armory.

Now, in terms of Detective Superintendent Brian O'Reilly, he was overseeing the Technical Bureau, which is, you know, a very serious position within the force.

And he spotted, among other things, issues around the defective holsters.

Now, these were holsters that were issued to a number of Gardaí, and they were issued to two Gardaí in particular.

time when

Did it change yours? I mean, what was your view of the incident from the outset? But since then, have you felt that the same question I asked, Alison, that there has been an understanding of the predicament these children are in? Yeah, I mean, take it back to

the day it became public eight days ago.

And the Garda Commissioner, Justin Kelly, made a point of saying his thoughts were with the injured family.

And in retrospect, that's entirely understandable on that level.

But then when things settle in and you realise there are five...

They are children who basically died.

They were doing something terrible.

We're loaded, aren't we? Does any of this matter? Can we continue to throw money at it?

But your favorite book?

My favorite book is a book I- some people mightn't have heard of, Going After Cacciato, it's called.

It's by an American writer called Tim O'Brien.

Now, despite his name, and I looked into this years ago 'cause I've read a lot of his books, a, a big fan of his, he doesn't have any noticeable Irish contacts.

If he does, it goes back two or three generations minimum.

But he's kind of from the Midwest in America.

He's primarily known as someone who wrote about the Vietnam War.

Tell us a little bit about what Conversations with the Sea is about.

He won't be lining out in the...

The reason to my mind why he's a sinner...

The reason to my mind why he's a sinner is that it's just this week increasingly people I bump into are talking up the chances of Galway winning the All-Ireland.

Galway woman here now.

There you are, Megan.

I'm hearing it all over the shop.

But what I'm saying is that what's he going to tell his grandkids? I didn't get that All-Ireland because I was on Love Island.

Excuse

And Noel Treacy was the, the, the person who won the-

Yeah.

And, I mean, okay, he has been in before, and he has name recognition in that constituency.

Notwithstanding that, you know, again, so yes, you can read too much, but I mean, there are straws in the wind there, particularly for Sinn Féin, and possibly to a slightly lesser extent for Fianna Fáil.

I mean, Sinn Féin now, uh, like, the transfer pattern Harry pointed out there, the fact that it's going down from other left-wing parties rather than going up, as one would expect if there's any kind of a move to have an allied left force.

And there, and that's back to the central problem.

Are Sinn Féin a left-wing party? Some of those who dare say they aren't.

Mm-hmm

Well, what happens in the interim?

Absolutely.

You're talking about thousands and thousands of lives upheaval.

You're talking about families, you're talking about young children.

Where are they going to live? And also, there's an element of transforming the model here to the extent that, as Mark said, they're trying to attract institutional investors, which you're talking about far more apartment living.

Now, we're not accustomed in this country to families growing up in apartments to any great extent the way they are, for example, in mainland Europe.

However, there are very different standards there.

Not much to recover if that was their hope in these proceedings, but I assume it is other.

Who brought it in and why?

Yeah, two elements to this, Sean.

One was the holy hour, as you said, for the cities, which was half two till half three.

And the second was the Sunday opening, which was very strict limits on a Sunday.

Pubs could open at half twelve.

They stayed open till two.

They closed then till four.

Did the local authorities in Cork and Dublin take