So that's about in terms of listening around the advocacy and really listening to the people that you work alongside and really championing those individuals so I absolutely love that great way and I think that's a great question or something for people to take away listening to today's podcast it's about how do you know that where have you got your information from and it's a great question for people to take away love it with that in mind then how did you develop or how do you continue to develop talent that you see around you of yourself and of those around you

I think there's always an assumption on my part that I don't know anything.

Start with that.

You know, if I don't know anything, then asking good questions of others.

And I've talked about that word spark, and I genuinely like that in all of its forms.

So lighting fire in people.

helping people find their own spark, their own joy.

for your revision oh my god it works absolutely um okay what was your biggest learning experience as a manager