how it went.

Now, we're finding that actually people are wanting to be able to access and see things more instantaneously.

They're having greater demands of engagement, but they're also, they're listening more.

And I think that's also a big factor.

The digital is enabling us.

Historically, you know, members were like, oh, that's not even interesting anymore.

But now they're beginning to actually, we're finding our read rates on our WhatsApps we're sending.

So what other lessons do you learn from this two pot system as we go forward?

you

don't save for your own retirement, there is very little fallback because all we've got is the state grant.

So it really is important for people to be saving for retirement to ensure that that they have some financial stability post but when you dig into the reasons people are accessing it i think it shows that our main three drivers of why people are accessing is around funding their basic needs basic living needs so food electricity rent school fees we're seeing it as the access in emergencies so the unforeseen expenses and also to settle debt so i suppose the big question a lot of people to ask themselves is which is the lesser of two evils in terms of needing to have immediate access versus saving for retirement.

But interestingly, we did a survey recently where we asked members, did you consider your decisions before you just dived in to access your savings parts? And overwhelmingly, people have said they considered the long-term impact, but actually this was the best option for them with the options that they had in front of them.

So I think we also cannot underplay how serious people are taking these decisions around the need to access their savings part.

Can we look at just those small behavioral changes that could potentially allow for individuals with a change of circumstance to be able to better prepare for their future needs?

I mean, I think there's a number of areas that are really important.

The first is awareness.

How important is it for South Africans to consider the impact of withdrawing and weigh that up against the emotional needs of what it is that they require the money for?

I think it's exceptionally complex, but there's no doubt that we've seen for the vast majority of South Africans, the only savings they actually have is if they've saved for retirement in terms of forced savings with their employer.

We find that the members historically and even currently otherwise don't have any other short-term access or ability to save.

So what we are seeing in terms of the access is that it is giving people a safety net that they otherwise wouldn't have.

But it's not an easy decision in terms of do you access this money now or leave it for retirement? The other big challenge we have in South Africa is if you don't save for your own retirement, there is very little fallback because all we've got is the state grant.

So it really is important for people to be saving for retirement to ensure that they have some financial stability post.

But when you dig into the reasons people are accessing it, I think it shows that our main three drivers of why people are accessing is around funding their basic needs, basic living needs, so food, electricity, rent, school fees.

Can we look at just those small behavioral changes that could potentially impact allow for individuals with a change of circumstance to be able to better prepare for their future needs?