I've been speaking to Michael Vaughan, former England captain, who is, uh, one of the key figures behind the tournament.

The state sector is, you know, is where I was, uh, from back in Sheffield and, you know, it was, uh, it was a glaring kind of miss that it's never happened before, so a, a, a group of people got together.

Uh, the MCC have been absolutely magnificent.

Uh, first and foremost to agreeing to, um, give up this incredible venue for the finals.

That was a, a two-second conversation.

Straight away they said yes.

And then a, a group of really important people got together, uh, the Blackheart Foundation, uh, led by Rick Lewis.

Why does this matter to you personally?

I mean, was there another option?

Well, uh, you kind of ...

Do, do you go from outside of the group? Um, which is a massive risk 'cause you, you're bringing in someone potentially that has not stabilized them- themselves in the test match team.

I, I, I look at someone like Sam Curran.

Um, would it have been, uh, more sensible for Harry Brook to do the test job and the 50-over job and someone like Sam Curran to come and do the T20 job? Um, you know, you, you, you get a feeling that Harry Brook and Baz McCullum are, are a strong combination and, and they didn't wanna break that up and, and maybe Harry gave the indication that doing all three jobs, it, it's just a little bit too much, and I totally agree.

I think to try and captain all three formats is near on impossible.

So I would think that Harry would've wanted to carry on doing both white-ball teams, which almost rules him out in a way of doing the test match team.

Uh, does this bring the buzz of Baz, or is this just a little bit safe as an option?

Here's the former England cricket captain, Michael Vaughan.

I, I would argue that there was many a time when I was younger that, particularly on a Sunday afternoon, when I used to play for Sheffield Collegiate, that you would identify the away trip, and you'd play on a Saturday, which was the, the Yorkshire League, but I would choose the Sunday game purely on if it was a good tea or not.

[laughs]

So if the third 11 were going to these little villages in Derbyshire like Carver or Baslow, we knew which were the good teas and which weren't quite as good.

And the odd Sunday we would miss because the teas weren't quite up to scratch.

I think there's a few clubs now, I think you have to, uh, I think you have to bring your packed lunch.

Yeah.

He said, "Nah, I'm done." Um, I, I, I just wonder in a year's time if he's playing for Durham, scoring runs, uh, taking wickets, enjoying his cricket, England desperately need an all-rounder to play against the Aussies.

We've, we've had a good history against Australia when we've had great all-rounders.

Uh, so I just wonder what'll happen in a year.

But as we speak, um, you know, it, it, it didn't look quite right at Lord's in that first test.

Even though England won, he didn't personally look quite himself.

So, um, we all just want, uh, want him to be happy, want him to be okay in himself and, uh, let's just see where this ride goes because, uh, there's, there's a lot of fallout here in the UK about this team, about the management of the group, um, the coaching side of this England cricket team.

Okay.

Is it the who that can get you? Like, if you get criticism from a specific person, and, and it might be because you massively respect them, it might be because you don't, or is it the kind of thousand cuts thing? Is it the volume or who is actually making the criticism?

No, I, I, I, I, I, I'll be dead honest.

I was always put back by someone that hitting the nail on the head.

Someone who'd written or said something, I went, "Oh, they've got us.

[laughs] They've got us.

They've got it right." Um, that's where, you know, that I w- I was affected by that 'cause I knew that they'd, they'd hit the nail on the head.

And that's, you know, just part of the job of, of, of, of managing your own emotions.

I wouldn't put words in his mouth, but after a big disappointment, which clearly this Ashes has been.

If, if that happens, and if the crowd goes silent, I think England have won the game.

Yeah, I mean, I, I, I don't know whether it's because of the, the drink I'm about to have for celebrating Holi, but I, I've just got a funny feeling about England.

I, I have a feeling that they, they, they've, they're on this nice ride from Sri Lanka.

Um, you know, you go to Sri Lanka early and play a few games before a World Cup in those conditions.

Preparation was good.

It's surprising that, isn't it? They played quite well.

Um, but we don't wanna go back a few months, do we? But I just got a, a, a funny feeling about this England side.

They could, they could easily have won that game, West Indies.

Mm.

And I, I honestly don't know what the right answer is, but I, I always got an, an inkling 'cause he was living at home when COVID hit, and then he was going to school and-Um, he wasn't able to train with the, the people that he wanted to train with around that period, and then there was sessions in indoor centers that were canceled because of COVID.

And you could see that he, he, he had a, he, he had a downer.

You know, he was a bit upset that he wasn't able to train.

And I kind of kept on looking, and I said to Nicola that this is a kid that desperately wants to play cricket.

You know, he's probably got more professionalism and drive than I had when I was that age.

And he was out in the garden.

Sliding doors, isn't it, mate?

Entertaining period

...

I'd never had anyone say, "Mike, can we come in, have you in the office? You've done this, you've done..." Never, ever once.

And the, there was a hotline that you could ring if you had a problem with anybody within our game, which is great.

That's how it should be.

That hotline has never rung about me.

So I was kind of angry because I knew that wasn't me as a person.

Right.

Just talk me through what exactly happened from your perspective.

Uh, yeah.

We, we'd been, uh, as a family watching, uh, our son, uh, play cricket.

Um, it was a beautiful day.

Um, they call it the Sunday session, um, in, uh, in Australia.

So we were going to a restaurant and the restaurant booking was for half past seven, we got there at six o'clock.

So we're in the pub, um, (smacks lips) just having a, a few drinks, uh, waiting for one of our friend's daughters actually.

Yeah.

Mm.

And the performance that we gave in Sydney was tremendous.

We won the toss, we batted.

And the pitch did a bit.

And Mark Butcher got a tremendous 100, and we got a number on the board.

And it wasn't a massive number.

I think it was 360.

Didn't cover drive.