Why right now is it accelerating like this? And do you think it's going to be different to the 90s?

A couple of reasons.

And one of the people I spoke to made a very salient point, I think, about COVID.

People saw what the government can do and the control that it can have.

And, you know, depending on where you were, obviously you're in Victoria, Rachel, but even everywhere, you know, and one of the guys I spoke to was a fireman who had led the anti-vaccine campaign down there.

Now, he's not some hippie anti-vaxxer.

He's just a bloke from who seems to be, was pretty much a Labor voter and just decided she didn't want to be forced to do that.

I mean, what is the role of journalists when presented with an opinion about a politician that isn't necessarily true?

Tell me what you make of the political response.

It was pretty fast, and it was pretty brutal.

Um, look, people die, so I think political leaders feel as though they have to react.

But we, we are, as you know, living in a world where it's very much, um, blame first, ask questions later.

And I think-- I just don't think it's terribly helpful when you've got politicians, you know, talking about significant consequences.

They wanna sound tough.

There's a whole lot of legislation around these sorts of things, and there are some pretty hefty fines that, that companies can, can get.

So what sense do you get of her, um, of how likely she is to, to look into these issues?

So from there, how did he end up in a flying school in South Africa?

Like everybody who has been in the services, you have to have a career after that, and in the early, early 2010s, an old aviation contact reached out from South Africa and said there was work at a quite prestigious, um, test pilot school in South Africa called Tafasa.

So Dan started talking to them and ended up going to do some work for them in 2011 and 2012.

That school is kind of, you know, sits at the crossroads of elite pilot training, and it was at the time of China's aviation boom.

In fact, I was in China at the time.

The, the commercial airlines there were just doubling, tripling, quadrupling flights.

You know, there's three big airlines, and they were, you know, really struggling to get enough people to fly the planes, so they were sending people all around the world to get trained.

So what is it that US prosecutors are now saying happened in South Africa? What was he doing?

Do you think there's any similarities with this case and Julian Assange?

There are sim... ob-obviously similarities because the, they're Australian citizens who the US is trying to get their hands on.

It's interesting, with Julian Assange, the US sent a whole team of lawyers over to England and to wherever he ended up getting let off, some small island in the Pacific.

But for Dan's case, the US have got the Australian taxpayers through the Attorney General's department to prosecute the US's case.

So Australian taxpayers have been paying to try and get Dan extradited to the US for something that if he did do it, he was an Australian citizen at the time, and the US shouldn't really have any jurisdiction over him.

Last year, United States federal agents arrested Xi Xiaoxing, the chairman of Temple University's Physics Department.

They knew that there was a lot of foreign military people out there doing things that they didn't necessarily want them to do.

So there was a concerted effort by the US, and eventually the UK, and then Australia, to try and wind all this back and pull it in.