How do you, how do you like navigate that sort of thing? Am I the only person that's like stuck on that hamster wheel?

No, I mean, a lot of people end up right where you're at, you know, it's like, Hey, I'm trying to do the right thing, but unfortunately due to the circumstances of everybody else, it makes it really hard and really difficult on me.

And it's, it, I like the puzzle because it's like, you know, as a man, I like solving problems.

So, you know, bring it to me, I'll bring it to my team and we'll, we'll do the best that we absolutely can.

But sometimes it doesn't make sense to offer like a core benefit.

If you're like that size and everyone else has it through their spouses deal, looking at people's salaries, it might be better and more affordable if we just give them a resource to, go find it on the exchange right and they can take a subsidy from the government through healthcare.gov or cover california to you get their own plan that way and you don't have to pay for anything but just make the resource available for an agent that's certified in that i used to be i'm not i don't want to deal with it but we can partner you with somebody that does do that and um you know hey this is us helping you as our employee we can't give you anything but here's the deal this is better for you anyway If you offer something as an employer, they have to take it or they have to go out and exchange anyway, and they don't get the subsidy.

So we can communicate that too.

history.

I'm curious, if we thought a little bit more of maybe benefits and employment packages as systems, like we design as developers, right? We're very detail oriented, I think, generally, technical folks, and how should we be thinking about designing our benefits packages, maybe in a similar fashion?

Yeah, that's a great way to put it.

So for me, when I'm looking at any business, I want to sit with the owner and the human resources department, or sometimes it's just the owner because they're so small, right? They don't have a human resources person, which is fine.

And I just talk to them about, hey, what's most important for you, right? You want to make sure that your employees don't have a lot of questions when they go to the doctor or Are you guys in a place where your people can pick up on some education so I can show them like, hey, here's literally a $10,000 catastrophic plan, but here's what we're going to do to fill that gap on that $10,000.

Now it's going to require you an extra step when you go to the doctor, but I'm here to help you walk through that.

Can we have that kind of conversation with your employees or do you want less of a hassle and more of, hey, we're willing to pay a lot more to fill the gap on that deductible and And then here's some ancillary benefits on the side that employees can pay for for themselves to make up the difference on that little bit that's remaining over.

What's most important to you, right? And so then we'll come up with a strategy and go get quotes on the market for anything that you're looking for.

But what does that look like for maybe your clients or in the examples that you come across?

I

had a great time in college, let me tell you.

And, you know, the thing is, though, the best thing that happened to me, my buddy started working for a bar.

And the guy that owned that bar happened to be a self-made millionaire by the time he was 28 through the bar and restaurant industry.

and one night my friend came up and he said hey i got this guy coming to my house he's going to be expanding this amazing new business opportunity in our area you got to come hear about it man we're all going to make a boatload of money together so it was a network marketing deal and i show up this house and this bar owner comes in the room and my friend didn't know this but two weeks prior i had trying to get my band booked at his club to play in one of his rooms that he had over there And he eventually had told me during that conversation, my band was not good enough to play in his venue and that I could go try again when I built an actual fan base, you know? So I wasn't a fan of this guy.

So I see him walk in the living room and I'm going, I'm not going to live in this pool.

This is, this is crazy.

During your career up until now, what do you feel's changed in that whole process or has it never changed and always been the same for you all

That was

exciting.

Like, hey, I can have a life of, you know, luxury doing something that's fun rather than like work my tail off in a factory or something that just doesn't appeal to me right now.

That's it.

That's my ticket.

And, you know, where we live was a small town in northeast Ohio.

It's called Thompson.

And in a world where, like, retention is so hard, what do businesses that hold, you know, how do they hold on to, like, great talent? You know, what do you do differently?

And it pays recurring, doesn't it?

That's right.

So the, the reason I got started in insurance in the first place is, you know, I avoided it, you know, pretty much as a kid.

People are saying, "Oh, you, you, you, you have a real passion for helping people, and you're, you're a great talker.

You should get into, you know, selling insurance." I said, "I do not wanna sell insurance." Like, you know, I had asthma as a kid, so every time I went to the hospital, my parents would get a bill for 500, 600 bucks, you know, for their co-pay, deductible, whatever it was, and I was just like, "Ah, insurance companies are criminals." And so, um, you know, my dad, he was a...

You know, he worked at a job and, um, he did not like.

A blue-collar guy through and through.

Personal development was what that was.