So where's Mayor Chau with all of this?

You're correct in terms of literally riding a bicycle in.

On her first day of office, Cycle Toronto did a group ride with the mayor and we had hundreds of people who gathered and we all rode down to City Hall together on her first day in office for her swearing in.

So quite literally riding in on a bicycle.

And I think for a lot of people, I mean, Olivia Chow has been a political figure in Toronto politics for a very long time.

Her husband was also a very noted politician.

Her stepson is also was a city councillor as well, who's running again and was someone who was sort of known for the whole family, known for being cyclists and being active.

Who is he going to blame everything on then?

So give me specific examples of how this can extend beyond bike lanes.

Yeah.

And with the caveat that I'm not a lawyer and I'm sure our lawyers are listening now.

So hopefully they're not pulling their hair out as I'm talking.

But I like to joke that I've become an expert in a very narrow band of constitutional law.

Essentially, it kind of comes down to three points.

And I've just had my notes right here just to double check.

So what is the end game here with this challenge?

There's a significance with announcing this today.

Um, well, the significance was, uh, that, uh, when we received the decision, um, uh, from the appeals court, uh, that overturned the, uh, previous decision, we technically only had 60 days to respond.

And so, uh, today was the, uh, the last of that date to respond.

Uh, do you, what kind of chance do you have here? Do, is this a Hail Mary or what do you think kind of chance you have?

Yeah, I mean, I have to be realistic.

Uh, the Supreme Court, um, only hears about 10% of the cases, uh, that kinda come to them.

Um, so you know, it's long odds.

Uh, that said, I think this is a particularly, um, relevant, um, issue for the case, uh, for the courts rather, to decide.

in maybe in the winter and then maybe, you know, just speculating here, they're going to try and stuff out in the, in the winter for the spring or something.

For the spring, most likely.

So I think the, you know, if we're sort of looking at the most accelerated timeline, if we exclude the section of Bloor through the Kingsway between Islington and Royal York, which, you know, we've already talked about as being the province wants to do immediately and, the rest of the 19 kilometers, parts of those theoretically probably could start being reconfigured, again, whatever that means, by the beginning of spring 2027.

And it's not clear.

what sections would be done first, how they'd be prioritized, and even how the evaluation of when a bike lane could be kept or not would be done, what level of community consultation will there be on this.

The other thing too, with these bike lanes that exist now, it's like the city of Toronto is not casual in terms of how and where they build bike lanes.

Sometimes I wish they were a little bit more casual.

But has the province said anything about removing any other lanes?

What is the next move to try to save these bike lanes or to fight for bike lanes in the future?

Yeah, I mean, I think in the very short term, it's, you know, reminding the Premier that, you know, we're in the middle of an unprecedented foreign threat.

You know, Ontarians cheered when Doug Ford called Donald Trump a bully, and yet he's behaving, you know, and yet Premier Ford is behaving that way towards the City of Toronto.

You know, remember, all these bike lanes have been approved through processes at City Council.

In the case of the Lure West bike lanes, they've been approved by council now four times.

And, you know, even Councillor Bradford's comments that, you know, he would remove them if elected mayor, the mayor doesn't have the power to single-handedly install bike lanes or remove them.

They happen through a vote on council.

And so this is the perfect—maybe people think I'm crazy by saying pulling out bike lanes is a gift for Olivia Chow, but if you want an enemy during an election, this is a good enemy to have.

She was eager to hear this chat, because one of her big questions, which is my next question, is can you appeal the appeal?

We, in theory, y- we can apply for leave to appeal.

So, um, again, you know, it requires a, um, a legal argument as to why, but there is still the theoretical potential for us to try to take this to the Supreme Court, and that is something that, uh, we are looking at.

Uh, the Supreme Court isn't casual in terms of which cases it chooses to accept, for obvious reasons.

Um, you know, the, uh, time, energy of those justices [laughs] is limited.

But yeah, I think, you know, certainly from our perspective, the fact that we had a very strong decision in favor, uh, in the first go-around, and now we've got a arguably equally as strong against this side.

To me, again, not a lawyer, does sort of imply that, you know, maybe this is something the Supreme Court does need to spend a bit of time, uh, sorting out, and especially this issue of, um, you know, what should be the boundaries of legislation, especially when it will knowingly put people's lives at risk.

What's your question?

Do we have a better, broader sense as to what sort of a ripple effect this will have?

I think it'll have a pretty big impact.

You know, certainly e-bikes in themselves have really been a game changer, especially since the pandemic.

You know, we talked about the fact that I biked here.

I came on a bike share e-bike.

You know, this trip wouldn't have been possible up Yonge Street, you know, that steep hill, getting ready for the studio.

You know, I probably wouldn't have done it on a conventional bike.

I am curious, what other things is CycleTO doing in sort of educating riders about e-bikes?