How did, how did you know, Clemmie? 'Cause I-- That came very unexpected, and how did you know that this was the time for you?

Well, I don't think I, in hindsight, I don't-- and this is, [chuckles] I don't think I've ever said this.

I don't think that was probably a right decision for me to retire then.

I thought that, I think that, um, I was going through a lot of stuff with my body.

Um, I, I wasn't getting on top of my injuries, and the world had started to get away from me when it, in terms of the times, and there was n-new kids on the block, and, and I just, with every-all, everything that I could, I just wasn't able to manage, manage my lifestyle, manage my body, manage my, my kind of this, uh...

I guess I, I had this one, sort of really clear-minded approach, and I, I started getting diluted with many things.

And, um, I think potentially I could have had, uh, maybe a slightly different approach where, um, the option was either r-was going overseas and training in America and with Gary at Race Club or, or retirement.

Wow

Can you talk about the psychosocial impact on you of, you know, being diagnosed with a life-changing neurological condition?

condition?Yeah, it's-- Thank you for having me, and apologies for not being there in person.

But, uh, yeah, for me, psychologically overcoming initially the early symptoms, which weren't life con- lifestyle threatening, but over time they became very daunting and, and even the time prior to diagnosis and pre- i-immediately after, it was a period of darkness and unpredictability and denial, which, um, my identity of being an athlete actually did not help me [chuckles] in managing this and navigating through these new challenges.

I was very used to structure, um, planning, foresight, and protocols.

So not having any of that was, um, was disarming for me.

I, I kinda lost myself and went through a pretty dark period for the first couple of years.

So-- And, and it's taken me a while to build up this holistic, um, wellness lifestyle that I'm le- leaving-- li- uh, leading now, which has enabled me to maximize my life and function and still, um, even with my reduced mobility and, uh, reduced, I guess, uh, physical ability, I can still maximize what I, I still have.

Michael, what would you suggest to Australian governments? What's your call to action?

Can you talk to us about that story, please?

Yeah, look, that was, you know, it's become such a iconic moment, more than the race itself.

It was, I think it had everything.

We had obviously the Americans that, or Gary Hall in particular, that was misquoted, but it was being put on the front page of the paper, smashed them like guitars.

And you know, that the media kind of jumped on that and they built it up to a great kind of rivalry, which there is obviously, but this one was greater than ever.

We were taking on the Americans who had never lost that event in Olympic history.

And it was the first relay on the Olympic program.

Michael, before we let you go, mate, I was just hoping you've spoken openly about it, but if you could tell us how your health's going and where you're at with that, but also just a bit about the diagnosis for those who don't know about the disease.

so yeah if you could maybe just talk us through a little like how that the symptoms and kind of when it got to the point of you being diagnosed

yeah so it's interesting that you say that i was in tune with my body but i think in typical um probably male style i would um i wouldn't listen to my body at that stage um and In 2018 I had a few niggles sort of pop back up again and a bad ankle that I had suffered from.

I had back operation in early 2000s which I started getting some symptoms in my right leg again and some issues with my degenerative spine and And all these things started occurring and I was just putting it down to these really acute sort of issues that I had previously.

But then I started having some neurological symptoms that I felt could have been related to the back issue.

I started getting some muscle atrophy in my in my leg and losing calf muscles and the strength in in those constant pain through my knee and ankle and definitely in my back kind of this sensation of tingling in my thighs and like lukewarm water being poured down my legs, which is really bizarre.

And then I would stab my toes a lot.

I'd get cold, really cold feet.

But like, yeah, in terms of a place to live as opposed to holiday, like I'm interested in how you found that kind of transition.

so yeah if you could maybe just talk us through a little like how that the symptoms and kind of when it got to the point of you being diagnosed

yeah so it's interesting that you say that i was in tune with my body but i think in typical um probably male style i would um i wouldn't listen to my body at that stage um and In 2018 I had a few niggles sort of pop back up again and a bad ankle that I had suffered from.

I had back operation in early 2000s which I started getting some symptoms in my right leg again and some issues with my degenerative spine and And all these things started occurring and I was just putting it down to these really acute sort of issues that I had previously.

But then I started having some neurological symptoms that I felt could have been related to the back issue.

I started getting some muscle atrophy in my in my leg and losing calf muscles and the strength in in those constant pain through my knee and ankle and definitely in my back kind of this sensation of tingling in my thighs and like lukewarm water being poured down my legs, which is really bizarre.

And then I would stab my toes a lot.

I'd get cold, really cold feet.

But like, yeah, in terms of a place to live as opposed to holiday, like I'm interested in how you found that kind of transition.

I'm going to run the London Marathon and I'm going to but I'm going to plan a holiday around it at the same time.

Yeah, so we have definitely been beneficiaries of this trend.

And with Klim Swim, what we've been able to grow is obviously swimming is such a strong sport in Australia that when families have a swimmer in their family, the swimmer has to go.

when they holiday they have to keep the training up but they've realized that they can come to bali and train with klim swim they'll have a positive experience for for one or two or three of the family doing the swimming training and in the in the winter holidays or the christmas break and um but then it caters so much for the rest of the family we typically see a younger sibling that you know tags along and you know them uh and the parents get to do their you know the spas or the beach clubs and or collectively you know there's but they so many families come to us specifically because that was the the they had to get the training in in the holidays and and then they and then they base the the the holiday around that Which was, I mean, for us now, we've had families from Africa, we've had families from South America, Europe constantly.

Southeast Asia is just a little skip across to Bali.

A lot of people describe Bali quite emotionally.

Like a lot of Australians

the 90s.

I'm going to run the London Marathon and I'm going to but I'm going to plan a holiday around it at the same time.

Yeah, so we have definitely been beneficiaries of this trend.

And with Klim Swim, what we've been able to grow is obviously swimming is such a strong sport in Australia that when families have a swimmer in their family, the swimmer has to go.

when they holiday they have to keep the training up but they've realized that they can come to bali and train with klim swim they'll have a positive experience for for one or two or three of the family doing the swimming training and in the in the winter holidays or the christmas break and um but then it caters so much for the rest of the family we typically see a younger sibling that tags along and the parents get to do the spas or the beach clubs or collectively.

But so many families come to us specifically because they had to get the training in the holidays and then they base the holiday around that.

Which was, I mean, for us now, we've had families from Africa, we've had families from South America, Europe constantly.

Southeast Asia is just a little skip across to Bali.

Yeah, Tokyo is amazing.

thank you if it's okay i want to start at the scene of your first olympic gold medal um the sydney 2000 olympics men's 4x100 meter freestyle relay you're swimming the first leg the usa has never been beaten in this event Can you share your memories of that day or night? It would have been evening, right? It was an

evening, yeah.

Look, straight into it.

Look, to this day, you know, I'm very fortunate that that event shaped a lot of my life and a lot of my career.

And I guess the notoriety that I received from it and what we were able to achieve on that first night is arguably, you know, one of Australia's greatest sporting moments but what I do remember there is this huge build-up towards the Sydney Olympics it was years in the making and I considered myself and I think everyone did very lucky to be at the right time in terms of our sporting career and then be at the right place and having at home games So I think we all as athletes where we knew the honor that we had, but also the responsibility that came with that honor.

We had an amazing support from everyone, from the public, from even the media to an extent, even though it was quite full on.

Yeah.

Like is that your father? Was that kind of just developed over time due to circumstances?

thank you if it's okay i want to start at the scene of your first olympic gold medal um the sydney 2000 olympics men's 4x100 meter freestyle relay you're swimming the first leg the usa has never been beaten in this event Can you share your memories of that day or night? It would have been evening, right? It was an

evening, yeah.

Look, straight into it.

I love it.

Look, to this day, you know, I'm very fortunate that that event shaped a lot of my life and a lot of my career and I guess the notoriety that I received from it and what we were able to achieve on that first night is arguably, you know, one of...

Australia's greatest sporting moments but what I do remember there is this huge build-up towards the Sydney Olympics it was years in the making and I considered myself and I think everyone did very lucky to be at the right time in terms of our sporting career and then be at the right place and having a home games So I think we all as athletes where we knew the honor that we had, but also the responsibility that came with that honor.

We had an amazing support from everyone, from the public, from even the media to an extent, even though it was quite full on.

Like, is that your father? Was that kind of just developed over time due to circumstances?

Can you share your memories of that moment?

day or or night it's one of those swims where we talk about athletes being in the zone for me and i feel like that was the closest i've ever gone to perfection in terms of where i was as an athlete but it it was one of those races where you remember all your cues in terms of dolphin kicks breath hold rhythm attacking the wall holding your body line off the wall you know i can still recall these these things and then 26 years later yeah and then you know like the 15 meter because and at the sydney olympic pool there's a really thick 15 meter line at the bottom of the pool so when you're approaching that you can tell when you're getting towards the end and i can still vividly see that line coming and that's when i change over into my dolphin kick freestyle which um was also kind of a rarity at the moment at the time so um Yeah, I think we got that lead.

And there was that seesawing battle with the Americans and the Gary Hawley and Thorpe anchor leg, you know, to this day, we were Dennis committee, obviously commentating that and, and then us just going absolutely bananas at the end.

And I think, you know, that celebration, it was unrehearsed, was spontaneous.

You could tell that there was just pure and utter emotion.

And I think if you looked around the pool, those people just...

I don't think it was anyone was sitting.

essentially achieved I'm imagining like your lifelong dream, your goal, everything that you'd been putting your time and effort and so forth into like, what was that feeling? Did it, did it kind of feel

haven't seen it too i remember will will used to say that your back was a boogie board yeah he's got lats the size of a fucking boogie board

yeah so look i i struggled for the first two to three years of with with that can with my condition and um i thought you know everyone was saying to me that i because of my in sport that I'd be able to power through that.

But I think the contrast of losing something that was the closest thing to me was my physical ability and losing that within a space of six months of not being able to walk up and down stairs or doing the things that I loved like going to the gym or surfing with the kids or playing basketball with Rocco or It just got completely taken away from me and I struggled and, you know, and then I think there is a lesson in this that I think I would not have had these learnings if I didn't struggle.

And it was, I think... people around me struggled they were there for me but they struggled because they couldn't you know physically make changes to me it was really up to me to make those changes and I it was and I didn't know that I was going through a grieving process when you your identity is taken away from you and this happens to many of us you know shit happens in life and trauma can happen and in health and can happen in personal issues.

And for me, I never thought that it'd be my health that would, that would give me this biggest life lesson that, that I'm sitting here.

I don't, I don't know if I'm wiser or, or if I'm, you know, more mature, but I definitely feel like I'm fuller from the experience.

And, you know, I think I always wanted more and, out of life and I was always, you know, just getting to as many events as I could and, you know, as many business opportunities as I could get out there.

I actually haven't had an opportunity to meet her yet, but it seems like, you know, from the outside in, it seems like she's an amazing person and it quite drastically, you know, changed your life too.

Yeah.

I've got AFOs on, which is like a, a brace for my ankle.

So I needed all the support, but I, I was, I started becoming really sort of resentful about this condition and why it happened to me, what I'd done to deserve it, and it wasn't really until two or three years into this journey that I started realizing that it's, my perspective is, you know, so important.

If I look at it as, you know, being the victim and I've been hard done by, um, I'm never going to actually s- move forward and, and do some, you know, I can actually do some good out in the community by utilizing my, my profile and, and spreading the message of, of the journey that I've had.

And it's a moment when my parents and my partner, they sat down with me and they said, "We, we, who we're looking at, at the moment is not the typical Michael that we know." You know, I'm used to be very sort of positive and easygoing, active, but I turned into this person that was, you know, I would stay in bed.

I wouldn't wanna go out.

I'd drink too much.

Mm.